FIXED 1960 Vintage Hotpoint Electric Drop-in Stove removal

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rickgburton

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I'm not sure this is going to work. I need to know where the wires are attached on the range. GE also used a bake hot wire relay and that is mounted by the power cord connection. That has always been a problem on GE ranges. The thermostat being a four wire and not a two wire makes it difficult for me to figure out where the wires are going. These machines can be difficult with the wiring diagram. Not being there to actually see the wiring or not having a schematic makes it too hard to try and diagnose this online.

My original plan was to rule out everything but the selector switch and thermostat. You mentioned the broil element was turning on but not getting red hot only warm. That makes me suspect a voltage issue. There's a testing order I need to go by. The first thing on the list is to check the voltage to the range so you can rule out the circuit breakers and then check the voltage to the selector switch and thermostat so you can rule out the clock. If the voltage is correct, that's going to leave you with either a bad selector switch or a bad thermostat, and both parts are no longer available.

For the past few hours I've been doing a little research for you. I could only find one universal oven thermostat #6700S0011 that would work for you but it requires some rewiring and does away with the selector switch and the hot wire relay. It comes in a kit and has instructions. Looks like this:
universal oven t-stat 1.jpg


Are there thermostats that could replace the 1960 hotpoint one?
Are you sure it's a 1960 range? If you are sure and you still want to test the selector switch and thermostat, I need this manual:
 

RACHELB

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I'm not sure this is going to work. I need to know where the wires are attached on the range. GE also used a bake hot wire relay and that is mounted by the power cord connection. That has always been a problem on GE ranges. The thermostat being a four wire and not a two wire makes it difficult for me to figure out where the wires are going. These machines can be difficult with the wiring diagram. Not being there to actually see the wiring or not having a schematic makes it too hard to try and diagnose this online.
Ok I'll decide in the morning if I'm up to the task of trying to pull the oven out. It sounds like I might be in over my head, even if I do that and have wiring diagram in hand.
My original plan was to rule out everything but the selector switch and thermostat. You mentioned the broil element was turning on but not getting red hot only warm. That makes me suspect a voltage issue. There's a testing order I need to go by. The first thing on the list is to check the voltage to the range so you can rule out the circuit breakers and then check the voltage to the selector switch and thermostat so you can rule out the clock. If the voltage is correct, that's going to leave you with either a bad selector switch or a bad thermostat, and both parts are no longer available.

For the past few hours
!! Oh my gosh, I'm sorry I sent you down the rabbit hole!
I apologize for taking so much of your time. I really appreciate your trying to help me diagnose the problem. If its the circuit breaker is that easily remedied?
I've been doing a little research for you. I could only find one universal oven thermostat #6700S0011 that would work for you but it requires some rewiring and does away with the selector switch and the hot wire relay. It comes in a kit and has instructions. Looks like this:
View attachment 56615


Are you sure it's a 1960 range? If you are sure and you still want to test the selector switch and thermostat, I need this manual:
Its identical to the oven at the beginning of this feed- and my house was built in 60/61, so it stands to reason that is 1960.

Thanks for being so helpful. I am very grateful.
 

rickgburton

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You didn't take up so much of my time. I wish I could have been more helpful. I've worked on many ranges that old or older. I just can't remember the wiring and they're all different. (might be an old age thing....lol). Working without a wiring diagram is like trying to find an address in L.A. without a street map.

I didn't think about it until after I posted last night but if the surface elements are working OK, the problem is not with the voltage to the machine or circuit breaker. The next step would be to check for 220 VAC at the selector switch. L1 is a black wire and L2 is a red wire. The black wires have faded over time and look almost white or light gray. I can see on the selector switch what looks like L1. I did a google search for "vintage GE selector switch" and found this picture of the back of a selector switch with the markings which looks like yours
Snapshot_3.jpg

Check for 220 VAC across L1 and L2 on your selector switch:
Snapshot_1.jpg

I did remember on those older GE ranges, in bake mode the broil element gets 120 VAC while the bake element gets 220 VAC. 120 VAC is enough to make the element very warm. That's what you have and that would be correct. Set the selector switch on bake and check the voltage from L1 on the selector switch to #1 on the thermostat. It should be 220 VAC.
 

rickgburton

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and my house was built in 60/61, so it stands to reason that is 1960.
One service manual goes up to 1960 and the other one is for 1961....It figures, right....lol
 

RACHELB

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You didn't take up so much of my time. I wish I could have been more helpful. I've worked on many ranges that old or older. I just can't remember the wiring and they're all different. (might be an old age thing....lol). Working without a wiring diagram is like trying to find an address in L.A. without a street map.

I didn't think about it until after I posted last night but if the surface elements are working OK, the problem is not with the voltage to the machine or circuit breaker. The next step would be to check for 220 VAC at the selector switch. L1 is a black wire and L2 is a red wire. The black wires have faded over time and look almost white or light gray. I can see on the selector switch what looks like L1. I did a google search for "vintage GE selector switch" and found this picture of the back of a selector switch with the markings which looks like yours
View attachment 56618
Check for 220 VAC across L1 and L2 on your selector switch:
View attachment 56619
I did remember on those older GE ranges, in bake mode the broil element gets 120 VAC while the bake element gets 220 VAC. 120 VAC is enough to make the element very warm. That's what you have and that would be correct. Set the selector switch on bake and check the voltage from L1 on the selector switch to #1 on the thermostat. It should be 220 VAC.
Ok- I will check later this afternoon.

On a side note, and a separate question, mostly just curious- The clock itself has never worked in the 17 years I have used the stove- and I never even tried using the timed bake. But if the clock doesnt work, would that have any impact on the selector switch? Someone had suggested that if I set the time bake, it might "jump start" the thermostat. But I tried doing that, and as far as I could tell, the broiler element got hot and there was no impact on the baking element whatsover.
 

rickgburton

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Those clocks were always failing. I tried to fix a few and could get them running but after a few hours it would stop again. Out of curiosity I took one apart and found the hole in the center of flywheel gear for the second hand was oblong. The gear would lean to one side then jamb the gears. However that doesn't affect the bake or broil settings only timed bake
The start time opens the contacts to the selector switch until it reaches the set time. The stop time opens the contacts at a set time. Often, after a clean or timed bake cycle, people would forget to reset the stop time by pushing the knob in. Usually it's marked on the clock and says "Push for Manual". Many, many times I would a call, " All I did was clean the top of my stove and now the oven doesn't work". Either the start or stop time knob got pushed in while they were cleaning...LOL. Even though the clock doesn't work the start and stop time needs to be set in the manual position. This is from post #9:
The two small dials on the left side of the clock is "Start Time" and Stop Time". Push them in, one at a time and turn clockwise until they pop out. If it says push for manual, push the stop time in.

I saw a manual for 1960 hotpoint on ebay
Don't purchase any manual until I check it out and make sure it's going to be for that style range. I don't think you need it just yet. Wait until you check the voltage.
 

RACHELB

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You didn't take up so much of my time. I wish I could have been more helpful. I've worked on many ranges that old or older. I just can't remember the wiring and they're all different. (might be an old age thing....lol). Working without a wiring diagram is like trying to find an address in L.A. without a street map.

I didn't think about it until after I posted last night but if the surface elements are working OK, the problem is not with the voltage to the machine or circuit breaker. The next step would be to check for 220 VAC at the selector switch. L1 is a black wire and L2 is a red wire. The black wires have faded over time and look almost white or light gray. I can see on the selector switch what looks like L1. I did a google search for "vintage GE selector switch" and found this picture of the back of a selector switch with the markings which looks like yours
View attachment 56618
Check for 220 VAC across L1 and L2 on your selector switch:
View attachment 56619
I did remember on those older GE ranges, in bake mode the broil element gets 120 VAC while the bake element gets 220 VAC. 120 VAC is enough to make the element very warm. That's what you have and that would be correct. Set the selector switch on bake and check the voltage from L1 on the selector switch to #1 on the thermostat. It should be 220 VAC.
should i remove the wires from L1 and #1 to test it?
 

RACHELB

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should i remove the wires from L1 and #1 to test it?
should i remove the wires from L1 and #1 to test it?
The multimeter shows no response for any of those connections with the bake setting on. With the broil setting on, the continuity between L1 and 1 reads .381 but there is no tone.

(in addition the wire to L1 either broke while removing it, or was already broken. )
 

RACHELB

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rickgburton

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With the broil setting on, the continuity between L1 and 1 reads .381 but there is no tone.
OK, let's start here; Never ever check anything for continuity with the machine powered up. It will damage your meter and can cause a nasty shock.

The next step would be to check for 220 VAC at the selector switch. L1 is a black wire and L2 is a red wire.
This is from post #23. You need to do these things in order or you'll just be wasting my time and yours.
a near match... it is ASR4167-12
That's a manufacturing number. Don't go by that number only go by the part number. The difference could be the knob position and size or length of the shaft. It might have a clean setting in the switch or it might not have a timed bake setting in the switch. The settings won't match up.

the wire to L1 either broke while removing it, or was already broken.
If the wire end came off, fix it and put it back on. Set your meter to measure AC volts and leave all the wires connected where they are. What's the voltage across L1 and L2 on the selector switch ? Leave the meter lead on L1 of the selector switch and touch the other lead to #1 on the thermostat. What's the voltage? Keep the test lead on L1 of the selector switch and touch the other lead to #2 on the thermostat. What's the voltage?
 

RACHELB

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Ok...here's the funny news: The broken L1 wire was the culprit. I reattached the wire and tested ac voltage, it was 0. Was totally confused. i checked the ohm tone for L1 TO L2, L1-#1, L1-#2 on bake setting with a reading of 21.3, 21.2, 21.1- Decided to close up control box and turn the oven on, to see if the wire had anything to do with it, and presto, both the bake and the broil elements are working. IT WORKS!

The question I have, is how was the baking element still working, and the broiling element wasn't with L1 wire burned out?
-The other question is maybe a dumb one, but why did voltage read 0? Am I doing the test wrong?
-Also curious, what would cause the selector switch light to remain on even on the off setting? Thats not happening now, but it was before, roughly at the time we replaced the baking element. Do you think that was also connected to the L1 wire burning out?
-Do you think I should try to buy a selector switch for the future?

Thank you for responding to all of my frenzied messages and for taking the time to look into the matter so thoroughly. If you hadnt encouraged me to open up the control box and test the selector switch I never would have even known where to start. (And now I realize that I know absolutely nothing about wiring! Ha! I feel inspired to try to learn some basics.)
 

rickgburton

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