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FIXED 417.29042992 Kenmore Front Loader - Won't spin at slow wash/rinse speed

Dieselden

Premium Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Messages
6
Location
Atlanta
Model Number
417.29042992
Brand
Sears Kenmore
Age
6-10 years
Kenmore Model #417.29042992

Please Help! My washer trys to agitate, but will only run at high speed. Won't run at wash speed of 52 RPM.

It tries to "wind up", and then cuts off. It does this throughout the wash and spin cycles. Motor turns both ways and is the only thing I have not replaced including: Motor Control Board, Door Lock, Timer, Press. Switch, Inlet Valve.

With water in the tub it tries to walk across the floor because it goes right into high speed rotation.

What else could it possibly be? Note: Ohm'd out the Motor Windings and all looks good there too.
 

Jake

Appliance Tech - Admin
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Aug 24, 2004
Messages
107,961
Location
McMullen Valley, Arizona
With water in the tub it tries to walk across the floor because it goes right into high speed rotation.
That's the problem, it should drain all the water out first before it starts spinning, if the tub has water in it, it will never be able to get into high speed spin, and the motor will do exactly yours is doing now.

So you either a clog in your drain pump, or the drain pump is bad. So I'd first check for a clog in your drain pump. Unplug the washer first.

Here's the drain pump for your model:
137108000 Drain Pump


Watch this video below to access/replace the drain pump, then remove the rubber hoses from it, then remove the drain pump and look inside of it for a clog. Have some big old towels handy, because when you remove the rubber hoses from it, water will start coming out.

[video=youtube;T_hL5hIcDWE]

Lets us know what you find.

Jake
 

Dieselden

Premium Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Messages
6
Location
Atlanta
Thanks for the reply Jake. It's true that all the water must be drained from the tub before going into spin, but the muchine drains just fine when it's supposed to.

The problem is that it tries to "spin" in the "wash" mode. The motor will not run slow. When going into "wash", it immediately tries to spin fast. That causes the problem of spinning with water load in the tub. But when it goes into "drain" for a rinse cycle, it drains just fine.

The motor just won't run slow (at 52 RPM) in wash mode. It tries to run fast and then stops. Does this over and over thoughout the wash cycle (and rinse cycle too).

Seems to me that the Motor Speed Control Board is bad, but that's the first thing I replaced. Unless I was sent a bad board? But there was no difference in operation between the original Board and the new one. That makes me think it is something else.

I remain in dire need of the fix. Anything else you can think of?

Thank you!
 

Jake

Appliance Tech - Admin
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Messages
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Ok, I was misunderstanding the problem, that is extremely rare to see happen.

It sounds like a timer problem.

Ok, you will need a multimeter.

Unplug the machine and disconnect the six pin plug from the speed control board. Measure the resistance between pins 1-2, 2-3, 1-3. If either shows open or shorted, replace the motor. Meter should show 2.6 Ohms. Reconnect power and set the timer on heavy wash. Measure the voltage between pins 5 and 6 of the six pin plug. 120 VAC: Disconnect the ten pin plug from the speed control board and measure the voltage between pin 5 of the six pin plug and pins 1-2-6-9-and 10 of the ten pin plug. If pins 2-6- and 10 read 120 VAC and pins 1-and 9 read less than 50 VAC replace the speed control board. Any other readings, replace the timer.

Here's the timer for your model you can order:
131800500 Timer


Jake
 

Dieselden

Premium Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Messages
6
Location
Atlanta
Jake,

Thanks for the detailed information. I think this machine can be fixed if we communicate at thia level.

First, regarding the Timer. This was the last thing I just replaced. I have also replaced the Motor Speed Board, Pressure Switch, Door Lock Switch, Inlet water Valve and Shocks too! The only thing I have not repaced is the Motor. Since it runs in both directions, I assumed that it was OK - but maybe not. Also, there has been no-change at all after installing any of the new parts. I thought for sure it was the MSB, but seemingly not (unless I got another bad replacement board). For the macine to so no improvement or change, that seems pretty unlikely.

Additional information: My MSB has two connectors. But mine are a 4-Pin and 9-Pin. I have checked the Tachogenerator pins and they measure the correct 15.3 ohms. I thought that the speed of the motor was not being sent back to the MSB, but if it measures correctly, then I can't say. Can you give me the Pins for the 4 & 9 connectors that I have? Also, I know that "Open" measurement means "no reading" on my meter, but how do I measure for a "short"? Read each pin to the Frame? Please advise if you can.

Thank you for helping me out with this very unusual problem, as I am at wits end.

Dieselden
 

Jake

Appliance Tech - Admin
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Messages
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A short would be "closed" to ground or another wire, that seems like the problem your having. So check all your wires to and from your motor control board and timer.

When I worked at Sears, these timers were a issue if it went bad, on one machine we had to get 4 new timers before the problem was fixed, seemed they had a batch of defective timers we were getting.

So, at this point in time if you don't find a short in your wiring, then its likely you have a defective timer, but going through the hassle of swapping the timer out multiple times is not worth it, trust me!

I'd go washer shopping if I was you and save the grief.

Jake
 

Dieselden

Premium Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Messages
6
Location
Atlanta
Jake,

You give up too easily my friend. We can go to the moon, but not figure out what's wrong with a washer? I will see if I can find a Short as you suggested.

As for the Timer, I'm curious as to whether or not the problems you were having improved (or changed) with each Time you installed, or did the problem stay the same each time? This would be a big clue - no? Please advise.........

.......and thank you again for your continued assistance,

Dieselden
 

Jake

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Messages
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I'm not giving up easy, the problem is I'm not there with you at the machine, and Its very difficult to help you troubleshoot this just on a forum my friend!

You have already replaced the 2 major parts that deal with this issue, so I'm stumped as well from this forum standpoint.

Jake
 

Jake

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Oh wait, there is one more part that would cause this, that being your door lock switch.

Here's how to test the door lock latch switch assembly:

Remove the door lock assembly and measure the resistance of the PTC.

The PTC is the wax motor(the piece that sticks out with the 2 metal terminal ends) on the door lock assembly. You will need an ohm meter to test that.

If it reads 1500 ohms, then its fine. If not its bad.

Here's the door latch switch assembly for your model you can order here if needed:
Door Latch Assembly 131763256


Jake
 

Dieselden

Premium Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Messages
6
Location
Atlanta
Thanks Jake.......

I wish you were here too, but since I can't afford a new washer, I don't think I could afford your services either, unless you would just be satisfied to find out the cause of the problem yourself ;).

As for the Door Switch, I have replaced that already too. In fact, everything except the Motor (and wiring of course). Besides, the Door Switch would prevent the washer from going into an agitate or spin mode, right? My washer "spins", even in the agitate mode, and that's the problem.

I am going to check the "shorting" possibilities today and will let you know what I find out. I'm sure that you are curious yourself at this point.

Thank you..... Dieselden
 

Jake

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Messages
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Ok,

Also Check your motor connector at your motor where the wire harness connects to it, I've seen those pins either burn/arc or pull out of place.

Check for 120 VAC across pins 2 and 4, 4) 120 VAC pin 6 of 9 to 4 of 4, 5) 120 VAC pin 3 0f 9 to 4 of 4, 6) Ohm between pins 1 and 3 of 4. Then check the resistance values on the all the C2 and C8 connectors and the reading for the armature (rotor) winding (pins 4 & 5) should be about 5 Ohms.

If it measures open, you will need to replace the motor.

Here's the motor for your model you can order:
131722800 Main Motor Assembly


Jake
 

Dieselden

Premium Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Messages
6
Location
Atlanta
Jake,

The verdict is in....... it was the Motor. This was the only component that I had left to try. Since the old Motor actually ran (albeit at only one speed - regardless of cycle), I really thought that it was OK. I replaced my Speed Board at the same time and ran the washer. Perfect! Then I swapped out the Speed Board with my original Board. Still ran perfect.

So the bottom line is that if the Motor will only run at one speed, it is likely the Motor that's bad, as in my case.

These Motors are Variable Speed type. I assume that there is a component in the Motor that responds to a speed signal from the Speed Board. If that component fails, the Motor will run, but only at a certain speed. I just might see if I can find out what that component is and replace it. Then I will have a functional Motor as a spare. We'll see.......

Thanks for your assistance in this battle to the death - now we're ready for that "moon shot".

Dieselden
 

Jake

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Messages
107,961
Location
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Excellent Dieselden, good job.:)

Jake
 
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