Ronr533
Premium Member
HI Old School
I would like one of the extra seals you have. I sent you a message with my info
Thank you
Ron
I would like one of the extra seals you have. I sent you a message with my info
Thank you
Ron
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[FIXED] Drum Gasket and Rear Shell Bearings
- Thread starter Jake
- Start date
- Status
DudeInAZ
Member
Wow. I knew I had a problem when my Kenmore Elite HE4T started banging a few weeks ago, then started "quitting" during spinup, now just blinks the pre-set wash cycle light when pressed... but wasn't expecting a forum with 229 posts dating back to 2006!
I have three questions before wasting my time on this machine:
1) Is the warranty transferrable? I bought the set secondhand from an acquaintence who short-sold their home.
2) What is the duration of the warranty?
3) Can I tell by the model number or serial number what the manufacture date of this unit is to determine warranty repair status?
Thanks, I'll drag the unit away from the wall and get the model and serial number and post it in a few minutes.
Great forum!
Drew
I have three questions before wasting my time on this machine:
1) Is the warranty transferrable? I bought the set secondhand from an acquaintence who short-sold their home.
2) What is the duration of the warranty?
3) Can I tell by the model number or serial number what the manufacture date of this unit is to determine warranty repair status?
Thanks, I'll drag the unit away from the wall and get the model and serial number and post it in a few minutes.
Great forum!
Drew
ctcomputers
Member
Please contact for seal purchase!
Hi Old School. Was not sure how to contact you for purchasing a seal and would also like to know your recomendation (if it matters) on brand of bearings. Thanks!
Hi Old School. Was not sure how to contact you for purchasing a seal and would also like to know your recomendation (if it matters) on brand of bearings. Thanks!
Old School
Premium Member
Try sending a PM, as mine didn't go through to you. Yes, I still have a few seals. Most of the US and Japanese bearings are of pretty high quality. Just don't go with the cheap ones like the MFG did, as they aren't that much fun to change!
Old School
Premium Member
CTcomputers, it looks like you may need to set up your profile to send or receive PM's, if am correctly interpreting the message I'm getting back when I tried sending you a PM.
Timetripper
Premium Member
Update to Sears Canada Tub Kit price + info
Hi, I just wanted to add a update for the Tub Kit available from Sears Canada and straighten a couple of things out that have been said over the last few pages.
Hi, I just wanted to add a update for the Tub Kit available from Sears Canada and straighten a couple of things out that have been said over the last few pages.
- Tub Kit (part #26 970134453200) price as of Mar 25/2012 is $207.99 plus 10% shipping ($20.80) + applicable taxes
The $20.80 gets it sent to you by courier (5 day delivery)
- Re: Inner bearing seal (closest to tub)
Please,please do not install this seal with the lip/ spring pointing at the drum - this is wrong IMO and will cause the seal to leak/ and or fail prematurely.
The correct way is to have the lip/ spring pointing towards the inner bearing (or back of the machine if you will)
Please see the document by jnicosia titled - RearBearingV6.PDF (as seen of the first page of this thread) - picture on page 7
http://www.applianceblog.com/washers/RearBearingV6.pdf for further proof. Also even though the bearing is sealed - 2RS = "2 rubber seals" if you put
some grease between the bearing and the seal then the lip wil be riding on the grease but installed the other way - spring side towards drum then the
detergent will let the lip wear out on the shaft IMO.
There is a SKF seal guide book here http://www.skf.com/files/774717.pdf for anyone who wants to read up on everything you wanted to know about
seals but were afraid to ask.
- I will be getting the drum kit in the next week and will take pictures of my old one for comparison.
- Good luck to all on keeping this excellently designed but poorly manufactured running, by excellent design I mean the basic premise. If not for the aluminum
spider on the back of the drum it would go a long time without repairs IMO.
- I really wish someone would look at a class action lawsuit on both sides of the border because of the way this was setup to fail from the getgo
Timetripper
Premium Member
A further update:
Sears Canada are scum bags. They took my money from my M/C but after almost a month I have received nothing in return after being promised 5 day delivery.
They also stopped repling to my emails asking for a tracking number over two weeks ago to prove that the tub kit had been shipped.
I am now in the process of getting my M/C to claim back the money from Sears - not a overnite process.
So the moral of the story is DO NOT let your friends, family or anyone one you care about buy anything from Sears Canada unless you want to be tried like a piece of S**T
Sears Canada are scum bags. They took my money from my M/C but after almost a month I have received nothing in return after being promised 5 day delivery.
They also stopped repling to my emails asking for a tracking number over two weeks ago to prove that the tub kit had been shipped.
I am now in the process of getting my M/C to claim back the money from Sears - not a overnite process.
So the moral of the story is DO NOT let your friends, family or anyone one you care about buy anything from Sears Canada unless you want to be tried like a piece of S**T
To: - Timetripper
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w
oNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Both Visa and Mastercard prohibit charging the clients’ accounts until the goods are shipped or the service rendered unless the client has very specifically agreed to such charges being made. The details are here: -
For Visa (Regulations)
http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/visa-international-operating-regulations-main.pdf
on pages 526 and 582
and for Mastercard (Rules)
http://www.mastercard.com/us/merchant/pdf/BM-Entire_Manual_public.pdf
on pages 5-17 and 5-18
Should you have used Visa or Mastercard (including ' a 'Sears' Mastercard) may I suggest that you take up the matter with your card issuer and quote the appropriate above reference to them as my personal experience indicates they do not always know the Rules and Regulations as well as they might.
[FONT="]Good Luck and please let us know how you get on.[/FONT]
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w
oNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Both Visa and Mastercard prohibit charging the clients’ accounts until the goods are shipped or the service rendered unless the client has very specifically agreed to such charges being made. The details are here: -For Visa (Regulations)
http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/visa-international-operating-regulations-main.pdf
on pages 526 and 582
and for Mastercard (Rules)
http://www.mastercard.com/us/merchant/pdf/BM-Entire_Manual_public.pdf
on pages 5-17 and 5-18
Should you have used Visa or Mastercard (including ' a 'Sears' Mastercard) may I suggest that you take up the matter with your card issuer and quote the appropriate above reference to them as my personal experience indicates they do not always know the Rules and Regulations as well as they might.
[FONT="]Good Luck and please let us know how you get on.[/FONT]
Dcon
Premium Member
I just got my 417. apart today after reading all of these great posts for hours last night. I think I may be lucky! All seems well and came apart easy except for the inner bearing. I would really be interested in one of your seals. I plan to order bearings and other misc. today. I just signed up on this forum, so my PM isnt working. Thanks! mrd93465 at yahoo.com
Ronr533
Premium Member
I had put mine back together months ago and was reading timetrippers thread on the seal. I am sure he is not tlaking about having the spring exposed to water but maybe im reading it wrong. Whenever I install a seal on any type of saft the spring faces inword to keep oil inside. Now in this applaction we are putting in reverse so the spring cant get exposed to water.
Dcon
Premium Member
Yes. Spring goes toward bearing (greasy area), other side of seal (smooth) toward water. Mine went right back together and is working wonderfully. I got my bearings off ebay. One of these; 6306-2NSE/RS/2RS Nachi 6306RS Bearing Made in Japan, and one of these; 6307-2NSE/RS/2RS Nachi 6307RS Bearing Made in Japan. The seal was purchased from the very helpful "Old School" here on this forum. Thank you all who posted info here. It made this task do-able.
Ronr533
Premium Member
Hey Dcon I also got my seal from Oldschool but It took me 6 months before I decided to put my machine back together. I packed marine grease between the seal and the bearing and coated the surface of the brass that rides in the seal with some oil when I assembled it. I also took the spider off the Stainless Steele Drum and sanded it down then heated it in my oven before painting it with appliance paint to make it not corrode as fast. The thing purrs now and runs so good. I got a bunch of crap from my girlfriend for waiting so long but being a guy it was no big deal to go to the Laundry mat down the block.
Fairly Handy
Premium Member
I'm up for anything, so I tried the bearing replacement. It’s too soon to know how successful I was, but I have a few points to share. Sorry for not having nice pictures or video but I think anyone will be able to follow what I'm saying.
First, if you’re reading this it’s likely already too late for this advice, but you should really pay attention to any changes in noise from your washer. For what it’s worth, now that it’s fixed my washer (417.44102300 Kenmore by Fridgidaire, bought the last year with knobs rather than touchpad) has four definite speeds that you can listen for as a check on how yours is working. First, there’s the normal slow tumbling as it agitates the load, with a lot of stopping and reversing. After it drains it first turns the clothes at the same tumbling speed, then at a second slighter faster speed so the clothes are held to the outside of the stainless basket. I think it checks for the degree of balance and if it’s happy it then quickly gives the load a faster third speed for maybe 10 to 20 seconds to drain the water. After several cycles, it enters the final spin pretty much the same as when draining, going from tumbling to the outside of the basket and then to the third speed. Again, I think it checks for balance for a couple minutes and if happy, goes into its fourth highest speed. The change to this “ludicrous speed” is more gradual, taking maybe 30 seconds to a full minute. It then holds that speed for maybe two or three minutes. It doesn’t get louder as it increases; I think that would be a bad bearing. What I hear is an increase in pitch, not volume.
Reading that it should sound like a jet engine is not helpful. There is a healthy jet engine sound and a very similar damaged jet engine sound. I’ve been asking my wife for several months if the washer sounds louder than before. I figure she does most of the wash and is in the best position to notice. She said “it’s always been like that.” I don’t know why I would ignore my own judgment and listen to someone who jokes about turning up the radio when the car makes an annoying noise. In fairness, she doesn’t hang out in the basement watching the laundry. She did say that the clothes didn’t seem as dry so this may be your best signal that you have a problem.
Finally our washer stopped doing the spinning out the water (no third speed, above). Removing the back I saw the large pulley had tilted forward to rub the back of the tub. What I did not recognize at first was that the front bearing had failed leaving the weight on the back bearing which tilted slightly in the sleeve to cause the pulley rubbing. Took it apart, thanks to this site, and saw the bad bearing. I'm not sure if the regular service calls we scheduled when the washer was new had replaced any parts or if it's all original.
Anyway here are my “tips” and comments on others’ issues.
1. As someone mentioned before, there are unusually sharp edges on today's die-cut appliances. While removing the shock pins I cut my forearm right where the veins stand out, but luckily did not go too deep. That really got my attention. Long sleeves would be a good idea, even in the summer. (By the way, I was surprised by how much rust has started on the cut edges of my machine's top and kick panels. I think the too-sharp edges make the paint fail.)
2. The large pulley was tight at first, but I rocked (flexed?) it along the widest axis of the key shaped slot to get it loose. In other words, if you rotate the pulley until the widest part of the key slot is pointed horizontally from the 9 o’clock to 3 o’clock positions, you then place your hands on the pulley at 9 o’clock to 3 o’clock and push your thumbs against the back of the tub to rock the pulley loose.
3. I did not remove the smaller back weight until tub assembly was out, so you can skip this step. I'm not sure how much it would have helped as the front weight is so much heavier.
4. After a little experimentation, I removed the shock pins by pressing a deep wall socket against the pointy end with both thumbs. I'm not sure the locking tab that springs up needs to be depressed for removal. I think it just offers enough resistance to keep the pin in when vibrating. The action of pressing out the pin seemed to push in the tab without any “extra hands” effort to depress the tab.
5. I only removed the motor and left the rectangular control box where it was. I didn't need the extra room.
6. To remove the heavy tub assembly, I stacked two pieces of 4x4 lumber at the front of the machine and rested a five-ish foot piece of 2x6 on the 4x4's and out the back of the machine on a two inch wide board. This made a kind of ramp to slide the tub on. My son could easily lift the end of the 2x6 as a lever and relieve the weight from the springs for removal. This helped guide the tub out and back in in a very controlled manner.
7. I left the boot attached to the front half of the tub and only removed it from the door. Worked great. Put it back without adhesive; so far so good, but have only done two loads.
8. I experimented a little on tapping out the bearings from the steel sleeve in the hub of the the rear shell. What worked best for me was a small ball-peen hammer (7 oz?) and a railroad spike. (My drift punch was getting all chewed up.) By simply hitting the edges of the chisel end of the spike, I could curve the point to match the curve where the bearing contacts the bearing sleeve. For me, the light weight hammer gave a faster sharper tap that moved the bearing faster than the regular size claw hammer I tried first. Rather than support the bottom of the sleeve, I simply set the tub shell on a right side up plastic bucket. I think the inertia of the heavier sleeve, and the fast speed of the small hammer made this work so well.
9. Check all your bearing surfaces. My spider shaft came out the shell easily leaving the good back bearing in the bearing sleeve. I thought I was good to go and ordered the bearings ($55 for Japanese Nachi bearings and an SKF seal at Motion Industries AKA US Bearings). Later I noticed the front bearing pieces had scratched up the bronze bushing where the seal rides. I measured the bushing at roughly 1.675 inches with four grooves with the deepest about .008 inches deep. To fix the bushing I tore a strip from an old 40 grit sanding belt and repeatedly sanded ten strokes and rotated the basket/bushing 30 degrees. Occasionally, I used a flat file around the circumference of the bushing to try to keep the cylinder flat. Checking with the calipers, it did not seem too out of round and the taper from top to bottom was only about .005. Final circumference was about 1.662 where the seal rides. I did not get to the bottom of the deepest gouge, but quit when it was only .003 deep, and a thumbnail thick. Switched to 120 grit and then 400 at the end. Took about two hours.
10. Why didn’t I just replace the bushing? For one, I don’t know the proper dimensions. (Anybody have an intact bushing they can measure?) But more important is that I may have ruined the spider. Mine looked good, but I wanted to clean it up. I tried removing the six bolts, but they were tight so I sprayed PB Blaster and left them overnight. Tried next day with a propane torch on the spider side, and felt a slight movement but no loosening. Thinking that was corrosion that needed to loosen, I retightened the one bolt I tried and went to the other spider arms and got the same result. On getting back to the first spider arm and trying the second bolt it sheared right off. Soft stainless steel. Of course! I’m not sure that the torch that works wonders for steel on steel doesn’t do the opposite and cause binding for stainless into aluminum alloy. (Anyone know it that is true?) Key learning is to ignore your automotive instincts completely and recognize that appliances are more corroded and flimsy than most car parts.
So now I am missing one bolt entirely, and may have damaged three of the remaining five. Now I could shear them all off, drill them out, try bolt extractors, then thread inserts, but I know how that ends usually. So I figure the skanked up bushing is the least of my worries.
I decided to patch that sucker up and see what happens. Tapping new bearings in is a treat after getting out the old ones. If you listen, you can hear the tone of the hammer change when they bottom out in the sleeve. I used some silicone grease (NOT SEALANT, which hardens) on the seal lips and outside edge. I also shortened the three screws that hold the fins in place on the basket. In another thread I read how their extra length only increases the damage to the front shell when something fails. I took someone's advice and reused my old belt, it seems fine so far. I also forgot the electrical plug for the drain motor, but realized my mistake on the first test load.
But it runs! IT RUNS!!!!
So, as Gary Shandling used to ask, was it good for me? I’d say yes. First, I’m only out $55. If the bolts on the spider fail, I’m familiar enough to easily replace the rear basket/spider/bearing/tub assembly. It may be just the result of falling in love with any machine you work on long enough but I think that would be an okay investment since there really isn’t much else to fail that I can see. Except the motor, possibly. Now that the bearings are quieter, and the motor is spooling higher, I’ve started noticed a slight ticking sound from the motor at slow speed. I wonder if the brushes are ready to go after eight years of heavy use.
And finally, although I have offered a lot of amendments to the procedure outlined here, I am totally grateful to all the posters who make this site possible. I don’t usually post on sites like this but I just had to try to pay back for all the help. If I manage not to lose my password, I'll try to give a long term update on how long it runs!
Thanks again.
First, if you’re reading this it’s likely already too late for this advice, but you should really pay attention to any changes in noise from your washer. For what it’s worth, now that it’s fixed my washer (417.44102300 Kenmore by Fridgidaire, bought the last year with knobs rather than touchpad) has four definite speeds that you can listen for as a check on how yours is working. First, there’s the normal slow tumbling as it agitates the load, with a lot of stopping and reversing. After it drains it first turns the clothes at the same tumbling speed, then at a second slighter faster speed so the clothes are held to the outside of the stainless basket. I think it checks for the degree of balance and if it’s happy it then quickly gives the load a faster third speed for maybe 10 to 20 seconds to drain the water. After several cycles, it enters the final spin pretty much the same as when draining, going from tumbling to the outside of the basket and then to the third speed. Again, I think it checks for balance for a couple minutes and if happy, goes into its fourth highest speed. The change to this “ludicrous speed” is more gradual, taking maybe 30 seconds to a full minute. It then holds that speed for maybe two or three minutes. It doesn’t get louder as it increases; I think that would be a bad bearing. What I hear is an increase in pitch, not volume.
Reading that it should sound like a jet engine is not helpful. There is a healthy jet engine sound and a very similar damaged jet engine sound. I’ve been asking my wife for several months if the washer sounds louder than before. I figure she does most of the wash and is in the best position to notice. She said “it’s always been like that.” I don’t know why I would ignore my own judgment and listen to someone who jokes about turning up the radio when the car makes an annoying noise. In fairness, she doesn’t hang out in the basement watching the laundry. She did say that the clothes didn’t seem as dry so this may be your best signal that you have a problem.
Finally our washer stopped doing the spinning out the water (no third speed, above). Removing the back I saw the large pulley had tilted forward to rub the back of the tub. What I did not recognize at first was that the front bearing had failed leaving the weight on the back bearing which tilted slightly in the sleeve to cause the pulley rubbing. Took it apart, thanks to this site, and saw the bad bearing. I'm not sure if the regular service calls we scheduled when the washer was new had replaced any parts or if it's all original.
Anyway here are my “tips” and comments on others’ issues.
1. As someone mentioned before, there are unusually sharp edges on today's die-cut appliances. While removing the shock pins I cut my forearm right where the veins stand out, but luckily did not go too deep. That really got my attention. Long sleeves would be a good idea, even in the summer. (By the way, I was surprised by how much rust has started on the cut edges of my machine's top and kick panels. I think the too-sharp edges make the paint fail.)
2. The large pulley was tight at first, but I rocked (flexed?) it along the widest axis of the key shaped slot to get it loose. In other words, if you rotate the pulley until the widest part of the key slot is pointed horizontally from the 9 o’clock to 3 o’clock positions, you then place your hands on the pulley at 9 o’clock to 3 o’clock and push your thumbs against the back of the tub to rock the pulley loose.
3. I did not remove the smaller back weight until tub assembly was out, so you can skip this step. I'm not sure how much it would have helped as the front weight is so much heavier.
4. After a little experimentation, I removed the shock pins by pressing a deep wall socket against the pointy end with both thumbs. I'm not sure the locking tab that springs up needs to be depressed for removal. I think it just offers enough resistance to keep the pin in when vibrating. The action of pressing out the pin seemed to push in the tab without any “extra hands” effort to depress the tab.
5. I only removed the motor and left the rectangular control box where it was. I didn't need the extra room.
6. To remove the heavy tub assembly, I stacked two pieces of 4x4 lumber at the front of the machine and rested a five-ish foot piece of 2x6 on the 4x4's and out the back of the machine on a two inch wide board. This made a kind of ramp to slide the tub on. My son could easily lift the end of the 2x6 as a lever and relieve the weight from the springs for removal. This helped guide the tub out and back in in a very controlled manner.
7. I left the boot attached to the front half of the tub and only removed it from the door. Worked great. Put it back without adhesive; so far so good, but have only done two loads.
8. I experimented a little on tapping out the bearings from the steel sleeve in the hub of the the rear shell. What worked best for me was a small ball-peen hammer (7 oz?) and a railroad spike. (My drift punch was getting all chewed up.) By simply hitting the edges of the chisel end of the spike, I could curve the point to match the curve where the bearing contacts the bearing sleeve. For me, the light weight hammer gave a faster sharper tap that moved the bearing faster than the regular size claw hammer I tried first. Rather than support the bottom of the sleeve, I simply set the tub shell on a right side up plastic bucket. I think the inertia of the heavier sleeve, and the fast speed of the small hammer made this work so well.
9. Check all your bearing surfaces. My spider shaft came out the shell easily leaving the good back bearing in the bearing sleeve. I thought I was good to go and ordered the bearings ($55 for Japanese Nachi bearings and an SKF seal at Motion Industries AKA US Bearings). Later I noticed the front bearing pieces had scratched up the bronze bushing where the seal rides. I measured the bushing at roughly 1.675 inches with four grooves with the deepest about .008 inches deep. To fix the bushing I tore a strip from an old 40 grit sanding belt and repeatedly sanded ten strokes and rotated the basket/bushing 30 degrees. Occasionally, I used a flat file around the circumference of the bushing to try to keep the cylinder flat. Checking with the calipers, it did not seem too out of round and the taper from top to bottom was only about .005. Final circumference was about 1.662 where the seal rides. I did not get to the bottom of the deepest gouge, but quit when it was only .003 deep, and a thumbnail thick. Switched to 120 grit and then 400 at the end. Took about two hours.
10. Why didn’t I just replace the bushing? For one, I don’t know the proper dimensions. (Anybody have an intact bushing they can measure?) But more important is that I may have ruined the spider. Mine looked good, but I wanted to clean it up. I tried removing the six bolts, but they were tight so I sprayed PB Blaster and left them overnight. Tried next day with a propane torch on the spider side, and felt a slight movement but no loosening. Thinking that was corrosion that needed to loosen, I retightened the one bolt I tried and went to the other spider arms and got the same result. On getting back to the first spider arm and trying the second bolt it sheared right off. Soft stainless steel. Of course! I’m not sure that the torch that works wonders for steel on steel doesn’t do the opposite and cause binding for stainless into aluminum alloy. (Anyone know it that is true?) Key learning is to ignore your automotive instincts completely and recognize that appliances are more corroded and flimsy than most car parts.
So now I am missing one bolt entirely, and may have damaged three of the remaining five. Now I could shear them all off, drill them out, try bolt extractors, then thread inserts, but I know how that ends usually. So I figure the skanked up bushing is the least of my worries.
I decided to patch that sucker up and see what happens. Tapping new bearings in is a treat after getting out the old ones. If you listen, you can hear the tone of the hammer change when they bottom out in the sleeve. I used some silicone grease (NOT SEALANT, which hardens) on the seal lips and outside edge. I also shortened the three screws that hold the fins in place on the basket. In another thread I read how their extra length only increases the damage to the front shell when something fails. I took someone's advice and reused my old belt, it seems fine so far. I also forgot the electrical plug for the drain motor, but realized my mistake on the first test load.
But it runs! IT RUNS!!!!
So, as Gary Shandling used to ask, was it good for me? I’d say yes. First, I’m only out $55. If the bolts on the spider fail, I’m familiar enough to easily replace the rear basket/spider/bearing/tub assembly. It may be just the result of falling in love with any machine you work on long enough but I think that would be an okay investment since there really isn’t much else to fail that I can see. Except the motor, possibly. Now that the bearings are quieter, and the motor is spooling higher, I’ve started noticed a slight ticking sound from the motor at slow speed. I wonder if the brushes are ready to go after eight years of heavy use.
And finally, although I have offered a lot of amendments to the procedure outlined here, I am totally grateful to all the posters who make this site possible. I don’t usually post on sites like this but I just had to try to pay back for all the help. If I manage not to lose my password, I'll try to give a long term update on how long it runs!
Thanks again.
Last edited:
"She who washes the clothes" was ignorant to the bearing noise our 6-year-old Frigidaire Affinity ATFB7000e was making for a long while, then after it started the 'knocks and bangs', we both chose to look the other way for a bit too long (was figuring it was just the bearings and I'd get to it soon).
Well, it wouldn't spin anymore the other day so I opened it up and found a nasty sight -- the belt was thrown off and there was black dust caked all over the bearings (and pretty much everywhere else). In addition, the bolt holding the pulley on was finger tight and had backed out a good 10-15 turns. Also saw a massive amount of carnage done to the plastic of the outer tub shell; some pretty wicked gouging going on from either the belt or the pulley itself. Wonder what the noise was?
After reading on here and seeing the spider issues, I figured I would open up the drum and see that hammered too; but inspection showed it to be in excellent condition. I am a pretty thrifty dude and am considering getting a new rear drum and throwing it in to see if we can get another 6 years out of this pile. I can get a new drum and tub o-ring sent to me for about $220 shipped.
My question is what type of damage could have been done to the shaft of the inner tub assembly? It looks like it's serviceable to me, but I was wondering if those in the know (99.5% of those reading this) have some other observations. Just looking to quantify if putting the $220 plus my time is worth it or I should abandon this thing and put the $$$ towards a new washer.
Also, both shocks seem to be seeping oil and are offering very little resistance when moved up or down. They want another $58 for a pair of shocks (making the shocks on my truck seem like quite a bargain).
"She who washes the clothes" doesn't much care for my drawn out repair techniques as she is washing for 7 and doesn't like having to go to her parents house to borrow the laundry and it's been dead a week already. I just put a new heating element in the matching dryer 2 months ago, but it was down for 10 days before being fixed. Was expecting a little more reliability for my $1410 spent 6 years ago!
Thanks for any help you guys can offer!
Well, it wouldn't spin anymore the other day so I opened it up and found a nasty sight -- the belt was thrown off and there was black dust caked all over the bearings (and pretty much everywhere else). In addition, the bolt holding the pulley on was finger tight and had backed out a good 10-15 turns. Also saw a massive amount of carnage done to the plastic of the outer tub shell; some pretty wicked gouging going on from either the belt or the pulley itself. Wonder what the noise was?
After reading on here and seeing the spider issues, I figured I would open up the drum and see that hammered too; but inspection showed it to be in excellent condition. I am a pretty thrifty dude and am considering getting a new rear drum and throwing it in to see if we can get another 6 years out of this pile. I can get a new drum and tub o-ring sent to me for about $220 shipped.
My question is what type of damage could have been done to the shaft of the inner tub assembly? It looks like it's serviceable to me, but I was wondering if those in the know (99.5% of those reading this) have some other observations. Just looking to quantify if putting the $220 plus my time is worth it or I should abandon this thing and put the $$$ towards a new washer.
Also, both shocks seem to be seeping oil and are offering very little resistance when moved up or down. They want another $58 for a pair of shocks (making the shocks on my truck seem like quite a bargain).
"She who washes the clothes" doesn't much care for my drawn out repair techniques as she is washing for 7 and doesn't like having to go to her parents house to borrow the laundry and it's been dead a week already. I just put a new heating element in the matching dryer 2 months ago, but it was down for 10 days before being fixed. Was expecting a little more reliability for my $1410 spent 6 years ago!
Thanks for any help you guys can offer!
Attachments
Fairly Handy
Premium Member
Go for the bearing fix, Thrifty Dude!
I am not an appliance expert, but the condition of your components is MUCH better than mine. I'd say you only need to do the bearings and seal (and maybe the belt and shocks) and you will be very happy with the result. Don't consider replacing the back of the tub unless it's leaking somewhere and even then you could patch it with some kind of epoxy. Mine had much deeper grooves worn in it than yours. Your spider shaft and bearing look great. You could even try it with the old shocks and see what happens before you replace them.
A quick update on my repair with one of the six spider bolts broken off. It is still running but it doesn't seem to wind out to the fourth highest speed anymore. It's not as quiet as the day I fixed it and ran it nearly empty ticks, rattles, etc. But my wife says it's fine and she loves it. So I'm waiting. I should be looking on craigslist for a broken one. I'd love to buy your spider if it weren't so far to ship.
I think the learning for me on appliance repair is that there's a big gap between the type of repair a professional has to do that restores full reliability for another year or two and rules out a callback, and the kind of take-your-chances repair that makes economic sense for a homeowner as an alternative to buying new right now. Mine has run for two or three months now, it's paid for the new bearings. So I'm ahead. My engineering student daughter helped and learned something so even my time was paid for in a way.
I am not an appliance expert, but the condition of your components is MUCH better than mine. I'd say you only need to do the bearings and seal (and maybe the belt and shocks) and you will be very happy with the result. Don't consider replacing the back of the tub unless it's leaking somewhere and even then you could patch it with some kind of epoxy. Mine had much deeper grooves worn in it than yours. Your spider shaft and bearing look great. You could even try it with the old shocks and see what happens before you replace them.
A quick update on my repair with one of the six spider bolts broken off. It is still running but it doesn't seem to wind out to the fourth highest speed anymore. It's not as quiet as the day I fixed it and ran it nearly empty ticks, rattles, etc. But my wife says it's fine and she loves it. So I'm waiting. I should be looking on craigslist for a broken one. I'd love to buy your spider if it weren't so far to ship.
I think the learning for me on appliance repair is that there's a big gap between the type of repair a professional has to do that restores full reliability for another year or two and rules out a callback, and the kind of take-your-chances repair that makes economic sense for a homeowner as an alternative to buying new right now. Mine has run for two or three months now, it's paid for the new bearings. So I'm ahead. My engineering student daughter helped and learned something so even my time was paid for in a way.
My bearings went out and I ended up buying the rear tub / bearing assembly. When reassembling is it necessary to put any grease on the shaft? I read through most of this thread and only saw one mention of that, but no mention of anything like that anywhere else, or in the instruction file. This is my first time working on bearings so I didn't know if that was something that is just understood.
Thanks for the response Fairly Handy. I will forge ahead with new quality bearings and epoxy the tub. You say yours had much deeper grooves worn in it -- I have 3 that go all the way through the plastic to expose the inner tub -- not sure how much deeper yours could have been???
Initially I was surprised that there was no evidence of water leakage with the holes in the tub, but I suppose there really isn't all that much water in the tub to get out.Trying to figure out which bearings to go with now and am scrounging parts currently. In the meantime, my wife was nearing her breaking point on not having a washer on site at the 10-day mark, so I went and found an 8-year old Frigidaire Gallery 'Commercial Heavy Duty Super Capacity' toploader for $75 on Craigslist to get us by in the interim. I forgot how much water the older toploaders use.
I think I'm going to re-use the drive belt (I saw somebody quote a repairman that said these things are super tough) and do the same with the shocks (even though they don't seem to be doing a whole bunch of absorbing). After looking around at all of the parts and pieces strewn around in the laundry area and in the garage, the thing I'm looking least forward to is trying to figure out where everything goes back together!
As for the tub o-ring -- I've read a few cases of guys re-using the one they had and everything was fine, and also of a few that did get new o-rings and couldn't tell the difference between the two. Should I or shouldn't I?
If Old School might be reading this thread -- I saw your post a while back in this thread mentioning that you had to order 7 of these seals and was wondering if you had any left? He has his PM feature turned off so they are probably gone.
Before posting to the forum with my washer issues, I was ready to drop close to $300 on a new plastic rear tub assembly (and end up with the same junk bearings) and a few other parts. Now I'll throw in the good bearings, epoxy the gouges in my plastic, and probably get another 10+ years out of this machine for about $50. $5 membership well spent -- totally digging this site!
Thanks a bunch!
Mculak -- I don't think you want to grease your shaft (in this application).
Vic Vann
Member
Thanks to this site my wife is now washing my clothes again. I was able to replace the bearings & seal with no problems. Was able to find bearings at Grainger.
Bearings are NTN 6307LLBC3/EM & NTM 6306LLBC3/EM . Seal was a TCM 40x80x10TC-BX. Seal had to be found at another local supplier. Thanks again for the help.
Bearings are NTN 6307LLBC3/EM & NTM 6306LLBC3/EM . Seal was a TCM 40x80x10TC-BX. Seal had to be found at another local supplier. Thanks again for the help.
After reading this thread, I also replaced both of my bearings and seal. I spent the extra money and used quality bearings made in the USA rather than the cheap ones. I used SKF 6306-2RS, SKF 6307-2RS, and CR seal 562739.
I took mine apart a little different compared to what I have been reading.
I took the usual 3 panels off. With the rear panel off, remove the rear concrete weight, belt and motor.
Get 2 4x4 blocks and cover with cardboard so the machine does not get scratched.
Put the front of the washer face down on both blocks, and position it so the door and switch knobs do not touch the floor. Now the back side of the washer will be facing the top.
Remove the 2 springs and disconnect the 2 shock pins where they connect to the tub.
Remove all the tub bolts and remove only the rear tub and inner basket assembly as a unit. The front half of the tub stays in place inside the machine.
Remove pulley.
Replace bearings and seal.
The way I did it may have taken longer because I removed all the bolts while the tubs were still in the machine. Using a fine tooth 1/4 drive ratchet and a small wrench helps.
I did it this way because I did not want to disturb the door seal and I did not disconnect any hoses except for 1 white bellows that clips to the tub.
Washer now runs quiet and I have had no leaks.
I took mine apart a little different compared to what I have been reading.
I took the usual 3 panels off. With the rear panel off, remove the rear concrete weight, belt and motor.
Get 2 4x4 blocks and cover with cardboard so the machine does not get scratched.
Put the front of the washer face down on both blocks, and position it so the door and switch knobs do not touch the floor. Now the back side of the washer will be facing the top.
Remove the 2 springs and disconnect the 2 shock pins where they connect to the tub.
Remove all the tub bolts and remove only the rear tub and inner basket assembly as a unit. The front half of the tub stays in place inside the machine.
Remove pulley.
Replace bearings and seal.
The way I did it may have taken longer because I removed all the bolts while the tubs were still in the machine. Using a fine tooth 1/4 drive ratchet and a small wrench helps.
I did it this way because I did not want to disturb the door seal and I did not disconnect any hoses except for 1 white bellows that clips to the tub.
Washer now runs quiet and I have had no leaks.
I just finished fixing my Frigidaire's famous broken spider. I documented my woes here, but since this thread appears to be more active, I'll post some thoughts here.
I had a hard time trying to get Frigidaire to honor the 25 year warranty on the inner drum. They said (and I couldn't really disagree) that the drum was fine on my machine, just the spider was broken - and the spider was not warranted for 25 years, only the drum was. Never mind that the spider is part of the drum and you cannot buy them separately, Frigidaire was not ready to cave.
So I went to Plan B which I read about somewhere, which was to involve a Frigidaire authorized parts dealer. Note, I said parts, not service. I did not want to spend money on a service call that I did not need. I found an authorized parts dealer in my area from the Frigidaire web site. When I called them, I found out that they had the inner drum assembly in stock, so I asked them if they could give it to me under warranty. The guy was a bit perplexed at first, and said that typically a service tech would be needed to deal with this, but he said he'll call Frigidaire to find out. To my amazement, he called 20 minutes later and said that Frigidaire will cover the part. Needless to say, I drove out there and grabbed the drum before anything changed, and picked up the tub gasket as well since they had it in stock. I had a near disaster there, as the lady offered to take the old drum so I wouldn't have to lug it home, and I agreed, forgetting that the old drum had the three vanes that had to be transferred to the new drum. Fortunately I realized this before leaving, and managed to grab the old drum before she threw it in the dumpster.
My bearings actually appeared to be pretty good, no play at all. But they were wet, and I figured that I might as well replace them and the seal. The bearings were fairly easy to find locally - I went with the Japanese Nachi 6306 2RS and 6307 2RS bearings, instead of the OEM Chinese bearings. The seal was a different story. I found places online that had the SKF 562739 seal that was mentioned earlier, but no one had it locally, and I did not want to wait for delivery (laundry was rapidly piling up). The two nice things about the SKF is that it is Viton, and that it has a stainless steel spring. I did not care too much about the Viton (Nitrile is fine for water and detergent), but I did want the stainless spring, especially if I was going to have the spring facing the water.
Let me digress for a second on the topic of which way the seal should face. Feanor17 said the following in post 201:
In post 234, Timetripper responded:
I researched this discrepancy by looking at the SKF seal design manual, which Timetripper linked: http://www.skf.com/files/774717.pdf
What I found relevant was this (emphasis mine):
It's pretty clear that the seal in the washing machine has the latter function. Its job is to keep water out of the bearings, not to keep oil in the bearings. The bearings are sealed, and there was no sign of oil anywhere in the bearing hub area. But there sure was plenty of water that entered the hub cavity, so the seal's primary job is to keep out the water, and thus the lip and the spring should indeed face the drum, not the bearings, as feabor17 correctly stated.
However, this would require a stainless steel spring, which I had a bear of a time finding locally. So I decided to make do with what I could, and bought a seal that I could find locally, which was the standard 40x80x10 rubber coated double lip seal, with carbon steel spring. I decided to mount it with the spring facing the bearing, because I did not want the carbon steel spring exposed to water. I noticed that the OEM seal had the primary seal on the bearing side, and the dust lip facing the water, so I figured that my approach was no worse than OEM, and I should be able to get another 10 years out of the machine.
So here are the parts that I used for the bearing area:
To install the outer bearing, I used a 2" pipe coupling which had almost the same diameter as the outer race. Here is the coupling used to hammer on the outer race, and then the seated bearing:
I had a hard time trying to get Frigidaire to honor the 25 year warranty on the inner drum. They said (and I couldn't really disagree) that the drum was fine on my machine, just the spider was broken - and the spider was not warranted for 25 years, only the drum was. Never mind that the spider is part of the drum and you cannot buy them separately, Frigidaire was not ready to cave.
So I went to Plan B which I read about somewhere, which was to involve a Frigidaire authorized parts dealer. Note, I said parts, not service. I did not want to spend money on a service call that I did not need. I found an authorized parts dealer in my area from the Frigidaire web site. When I called them, I found out that they had the inner drum assembly in stock, so I asked them if they could give it to me under warranty. The guy was a bit perplexed at first, and said that typically a service tech would be needed to deal with this, but he said he'll call Frigidaire to find out. To my amazement, he called 20 minutes later and said that Frigidaire will cover the part. Needless to say, I drove out there and grabbed the drum before anything changed, and picked up the tub gasket as well since they had it in stock. I had a near disaster there, as the lady offered to take the old drum so I wouldn't have to lug it home, and I agreed, forgetting that the old drum had the three vanes that had to be transferred to the new drum. Fortunately I realized this before leaving, and managed to grab the old drum before she threw it in the dumpster.
My bearings actually appeared to be pretty good, no play at all. But they were wet, and I figured that I might as well replace them and the seal. The bearings were fairly easy to find locally - I went with the Japanese Nachi 6306 2RS and 6307 2RS bearings, instead of the OEM Chinese bearings. The seal was a different story. I found places online that had the SKF 562739 seal that was mentioned earlier, but no one had it locally, and I did not want to wait for delivery (laundry was rapidly piling up). The two nice things about the SKF is that it is Viton, and that it has a stainless steel spring. I did not care too much about the Viton (Nitrile is fine for water and detergent), but I did want the stainless spring, especially if I was going to have the spring facing the water.
Let me digress for a second on the topic of which way the seal should face. Feanor17 said the following in post 201:
In post 234, Timetripper responded:
I researched this discrepancy by looking at the SKF seal design manual, which Timetripper linked: http://www.skf.com/files/774717.pdf
What I found relevant was this (emphasis mine):
It's pretty clear that the seal in the washing machine has the latter function. Its job is to keep water out of the bearings, not to keep oil in the bearings. The bearings are sealed, and there was no sign of oil anywhere in the bearing hub area. But there sure was plenty of water that entered the hub cavity, so the seal's primary job is to keep out the water, and thus the lip and the spring should indeed face the drum, not the bearings, as feabor17 correctly stated.
However, this would require a stainless steel spring, which I had a bear of a time finding locally. So I decided to make do with what I could, and bought a seal that I could find locally, which was the standard 40x80x10 rubber coated double lip seal, with carbon steel spring. I decided to mount it with the spring facing the bearing, because I did not want the carbon steel spring exposed to water. I noticed that the OEM seal had the primary seal on the bearing side, and the dust lip facing the water, so I figured that my approach was no worse than OEM, and I should be able to get another 10 years out of the machine.
So here are the parts that I used for the bearing area:
To install the outer bearing, I used a 2" pipe coupling which had almost the same diameter as the outer race. Here is the coupling used to hammer on the outer race, and then the seated bearing:
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