[FIXED] Drum Gasket and Rear Shell Bearings

Status
Not open for further replies.

jmcclellan

Premium Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
15
Location
Toronto
Spider assy

So I am cleaning up the spider/shaft assembly (removed from drum) in preparation for painting it to prevent further damage from corrosion.. but it is in very bad looking condition. There is deep pitting all over the arms, and the main shaft (steel) is visible through the back of the aluminum casting, it is corroded away so much. I am concerned there may not be much life left in these arms and if one lets go, there won't be much left of my washer..

repairclinic.com only seems to sell the spider and inner tub as an assembly, but I don't need the tub. Anyone know where I could get the spider/shaft assy alone?
 

tradergordo

Premium Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
Messages
10
Location
Philly
I read the entire thread and don't see anyone specifically mention that the bearing/seal kit from repairclinic is the correct size.

Can anyone confirm or deny? I've get a Kenmore 417.X model. I just ordered the repairclinic bearing set linked to in this thread but now I'm thinking it is not the right part! I'm going to cancel the order unless someone tells me otherwise...

p.s. If that repairclinic link is to a bogus bearing/seal kit that doesn't work, could the moderator please delete those posts? They are going to cause a lot of wasted time and money and repairclinic won't be very happy either.

p.p.s. I found the correct bearings on eBay for pretty cheap. But does anyone know where I can get the seal? 40x80x10 doesn't yield too many results.
 
Last edited:

Jake

Appliance Tech - Admin
Staff member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
100,630
Location
McMullen Valley, Arizona
It seems some are different sizes, I would call RepairClinic.com to verify they will fit before you buy them, It seems most people on this thread purchased them from a local bearing company in there town.

Jake
 

jmcclellan

Premium Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
15
Location
Toronto
Jake said:
It seems some are different sizes, I would call RepairClinic.com to verify they will fit before you buy them, It seems most people on this thread purchased them from a local bearing company in there town.

Jake
Jake, I specifically did not purchase their kit because it contains more of the same cheap oriental made bearings that were originally in the washer. I bought SKF bearings from a local bearing shop. If you got some 'cheap' bearings on ebay, I would do yourself a favor and make sure they are a decent brand such as SKF, likewise take the effort to find the proper seal, or you'll find yourself doing this job again in a relatively short time! :eek:

if you're looking for the same seal as my washer in this thread, this info may help.. my bearing supplier who carries SKF was able to get this no problem (cost $8)

Chicago Rawhide seal data;
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width=400 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Stock Number
</TD><TD>15939
</TD></TR><TR><TD>Description
</TD><TD>LDS & SMALL BORE SEAL
</TD></TR><TR><TD>Lip Code
</TD><TD>Nitrile (Lip Code: R)
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Type/Style
</TD><TD>HMSA7

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width=300 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="30%">
</TD><TD>Metric
</TD></TR><TR><TD>Shaft
</TD><TD>40
</TD></TR><TR><TD>Bore
</TD><TD>80
</TD></TR><TR><TD>OD
</TD><TD>80.162
</TD></TR><TR><TD>Width
</TD><TD>10
</TD></TR><TR><TD>Weight
</TD><TD>0.061
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width=350 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>UPC
</TD><TD>00085311284950
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 

Jake

Appliance Tech - Admin
Staff member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
100,630
Location
McMullen Valley, Arizona
Thanks Guys for your great information on this to help others.:)

As a tech. I have never just changed the bearings separately, as we techs are stretched for time, we just order the complete outer shell assembly(bearings included) and inner tub basket. Most of the ones we did, the customers had a service contract on them, so cost was no factor.:)

Jake
 

tradergordo

Premium Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
Messages
10
Location
Philly
Well I didn't get Chinese junk, I got the high quality "ORS" brand made in Turkey ;) [I didn't order the repair clinic set because they are only 2 inchs in diameter, which is NOT the correct size for this job]


As for the seal, I bought it from Napa Auto Parts (was a special order, like $9 + $4 shipping), also Chicago Rawhide but the stock number on mine is different, its 15872 (CR 40x80x10 HMS4 R Oil Seal). [Edit: I can confirm that this is the right part, its one piece, I recommend you greast the inner lip and after you insert it into the bore on the rear shell, add silicone sealant around the outer diamerter of the seal for extra protection.]

Getting the bearings out was a major pain, but what worked was turning the unit cone side down, on top of a wood support with a hole cut out of it (as someone recommended), then I stuck a 2 inch pvc pipe down the shaft and hammered it with a rubber malet. The bearing eventually came out, but it took a lot of hard whacks. (separating the shell from the tub was similar - covered the shaft with a rubber glove, then put a piece of plywood on top, and hit with rubber malet until they separated - no damage was done and that worked real well).


I still have two questions:
1) Would it be silly not to replace the shell seal while I have it all apart? My unit has never leaked, so I did not order that part, but after putting all the work into taking everything apart, I'm now thinking maybe I should order one just to be safe. What about just putting a thin coat of silicone sealant over the existing gasket?

2) Do I really have to take the boot off the front part of the machine? Why can't I put it back on the same way I took it off (which was from the drum side only)? The instructions have me taking the boot completely off for some reason. I just don't want to damage that thing or do cutting to get it off the front. Is it really hard or impossible to get it back on the same way we got it off?
 
Last edited:

jmcclellan

Premium Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
15
Location
Toronto
Your seal is effectively the same one as mine, they list the one you and I bought as interchangeable stock numbers..

when you say it does not have the 'rubber middle section'.. you mean that your old one looked like one thick solid piece of rubber, but your new one looks hollow in the middle? If that's what you mean, then nothing is missing. The old one was just a solid piece of rubber. The new one is steel reinforced nitrile. click this link; if this looks something like your seal, it's right..

http://www.skfextranet.com/Catalogs/457010/sealdetail.asp?s=15872

I was wondering about the shell seal as well. It looks to be in good shape and didn't leak, but I was thinking about putting in Loctite Instant Gasket.. the only problem with adding any type of sealing material is that if you need to open the thing ever again, you will have a hell of a time getting it apart! That gasket is probably just better off if you clean off any crusties and put it back in, as long as it isn't completely flattened, in which case it should be replaced.

I too wondered about the instructions that said to remove the boot. I have got the drum out the back without removing the boot from the front and wondered if I couldn't just put it back in the reverse of how it came out. I haven't done it yet so I can't answer your question.. maybe someone else can tell us both?
 

tradergordo

Premium Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
Messages
10
Location
Philly
[Edited - the gap between the seal and bearing is normal, both should fit snuggly into the bore on the rear housing. Although I DID add silicon sealant around the outside circumference of the seal, and grease around the inner ring of the seal. Hopefully it will last longer than the 6 years of the original.]


Close up:
 
Last edited:

jmcclellan

Premium Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
15
Location
Toronto
I see your confusion. The two pictures are showing the top and bottom views of the one part, not two separate pieces. A cross sectional view of the seal is like this;



The speedi-sleeve is a different part that would be used to repair the shaft if the shaft were damaged or worn down. You don't need that.

As for your pictures;

The seal is not supposed to seat against the bearing. The yellowish larger ring is where the seal rides on the shaft. The seal is pressed into the bore in the backshell in front of the front bearing. In that fashion it seals against the backshell bore and against the shaft bushing which is the friction surface.

It would be a good idea to put a small amount of bearing grease on the lip seal before installing the shaft or the seal will wear quickly and leak. This is more likely the cause of the original leakage - they probably installed the bearings with factory lubrication, and installed the seal dry, so it wore out in no time. Seals require lubrication too!

after I took mine apart I couldn't tell if it was greased or not at first because of the mess from the old bearings.. after cleaning it, it was obvious that it was not, the seal was all hard and cracked, probably from friction heating..

I notice that your spiders are in very good condition.. how old is your washer? have you always used liquid detergent? Mine are so badly corroded, I have not reassembled it yet because I am concerned they have insufficient aluminum remaining!
 

tradergordo

Premium Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
Messages
10
Location
Philly
My machine is actually 6 years old. I was kind of shocked when I opened the drum up, to see the spiders in such great condition (compared to the photos I've seen here of machines even younger than mine). The spiders I think are aluminum, and it says "made in canada". I have ALWAYS used "normal" sudsy, liquid detergent (I see "Fab" and "Era Max" in the laundry room right now) - but always about 1/3 of the recommended amount.

Thanks for the info on the seal - good to know I have the right part and nothing is missing.

I revised my post with the pictures. I guess when the parts are locked down, there should be no room for the seal to slide back. I added silicone sealant around the edges of the seal, and silicone sealant to the gasket (its not like glue, if I have to take it apart, it will come off easily, its great stuff, stays rubbery forever, I've used it to stop many leaks and to fill gaps in the side of my house, etc.).

By the way, I thought my original seal was well lubricated (and in two pieces that came apart with lots of grease in between - that's why I thought the replacement part was supposed to have two parts). But now what I think happened is the bearing was completely destroyed, so perhaps the grease and ruber insert actually came from the bearing? I discovered that the outer ring of the old bearing was still stuck in down the shaft of the rear shell (I originally thought that was part of the rear shell). It was a total pain to remove, but eventually with a hammer and chisel I was able to pound it out (I tried a lot of things including trying to cut it out with a diamond cutting disc - sparks flying everywhere, heh).
 
Last edited:

jmcclellan

Premium Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
15
Location
Toronto
Mine is 4 years old. I was given this washer due to this bearing problem, the original owners just replaced it due to what they were quoted by repair people! They tell me that when they first got it, they used powder for a while. From the looks of the spiders it is obvious, they were completely caked with powder residue and it has eaten away 50% of the spider thickness in many places. So, anyone getting a front loader - don't use powder! I am still trying to find somewhere to buy just the spider assembly, all the online parts places want to sell the spider with the main drum and I don't need the drum.

Your bearings would have had seals on the bearings themselves as well, so if you found that you could see the balls in the bearing when you took it out, and you found an extra circular rubber part up there with the main seal, that would have been the bearing seal which had come out, and the grease you saw was the 'escaped' bearing grease! The bearings come pre-lubed ("for life" they say, which means to me, when the grease runs out, their life is over) and the seals are what keep that in..
 

tradergordo

Premium Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
Messages
10
Location
Philly
Yea, that extra rubber piece was from the original bearing (and yes, all the balls and gunk were everywhere, with only the outer ring of the bearing stuck in the bore).

FYI: For those wondering about the front boot - follow the directions, and remove it completely from the machine. Its not that much extra work, and trying to do it in the reverse of how you took it off (i.e. only removing it from the drum and not the front of the machine) is definitely a bad idea. You have to remove the front weights and metal ring from the drum to get that boot back on. Just pull on the rubber boot ring on the front of the machine outward, it is only glued in about 12 dots like the hours on a clock, mostly it pulled right off, but I had to use a knife on a few spots. It goes back on without having to use any adhesive.

Did a test load of laundry after the repairs and everything seems to be working better than ever. No leaks, and a LOT less noise and vibration in that final spin cycle. I found that the installer for some reason had extended the legs (all of them!) as far as they would go. Stupid... so I put them all back down and leveled the machine.

p.s. Nice move in picking up a 4 year old machine for free. I could probably do this repair NOW, in about 4 hours, parts are less than $40, and you could sell the machine for maybe $400 (not sure?). So around $100/hour is pretty good (damaged spiders will cut into those margins). I wonder if there is any efficient way to find people that are willing to give away broken machines?
 
Last edited:

mchin

Premium Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
10
Location
canada
I am wondering about the front boot in this repair.
Can I not just remove the boot from the front panel and push it in,
then remove the duct clip, and withdraw tub with the boot still
connected? Planning to change bearings this w/e.
Great info on this site.
 

ron in sc

Premium Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Messages
89
Location
Charleston, South Carolina, USA
mchin said:
Can I not just remove the boot from the front panel and push it in,
then remove the duct clip, and withdraw tub with the boot still
connected?
Having done this job I think you could. That's the way I would do it if I had to do it again. You have to take the boot off the front panel anyway to reintall it to the front of the shell. If you don't have to reinstall it to the front of the shell you will save a lot of time.
 

mchin

Premium Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
10
Location
canada
Wonderful. I'll try it this way.
Thanks. Incidently, I priced out the parts for replacement
of bearings,seal, tub seal. It came out to be
about $64 Canadian.(in Victoria B.C)
The rear tub ass. (includes bearings, seals) $142.
Diff, $78
Doesn't seem worth the effort to knock bearings out etc.
Anyway will see when I take it apart.
Thanks all.
 

ron in sc

Premium Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Messages
89
Location
Charleston, South Carolina, USA
mchin said:
Doesn't seem worth the effort to knock bearings out etc.
Anyway will see when I take it apart.
Thanks all.
I agree, however, if the tub you are getting has front and real shells you will have to remount the boot, gasket or whatever it's called to the front of your new shell. That means you have to remove all the cement weights and brackets on the front of the old shell.

Also keep in mind the new bearings that come in the shell may be of the same quality as the old ones, ie made in China.
 

mchin

Premium Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
10
Location
canada
That was the price for the rear tub shell only. plus seals.
so I won't have to do much to the front.
 

jmcclellan

Premium Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
15
Location
Toronto
Guys.. getting the bearings out of the rear shell is a very small task compared to the rest of the job, such as getting the spin tub out of the bearings (which you have to do in any case)..

the replacement rear shell will most certainly come with the OEM bearings and seal, more of the same cheap oriental crap. Do yourself a favor, take the money you save from not buying the rear shell, and spend it on a set of SKF bearings and a decent seal instead. (less actually - cost me about $98 for a set of SKF spherical roller bearings, CR double lip seal and tube of grease at Canadian Bearings) In 4 or 5 years when you are NOT doing this job again, you won't regret it :3:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top