Kenmore direct drive washer 110.23812100 at the end of the spin, it clanks loudly

[michiganjim]

Model Number

110.23812100

Brand

Sears Kenmore

Age

More than 10 years

A year or so, wouldn't spin, replaced spin clutch, then later noticed oil / water leak coming fro the trans drive to motor shaft seal. Given my preference for these old direct drive over anything newer, I decided to do the full monty on it.

Replace transmission with rebuilt (with new drive seal) from a shop. I also picked up a good, used clutch/brake drive tube because I munged up the lip on mine trying to get the upper seal out. The seal might have been OK on the one I got but decide to put new in anyway. Also replaced the outer seal in the main support tube, tub seal, water pump, motor drive coupler, mixing valve, balance springs and even the munged plastic inserts in cabinet top where console screws on. I did lots of scrubbing, cleaning of a dozen plus years soap scum from tank and drum. Cosmetically, I also wire brushed rust off the main frame, etc and spray painted with rustoleum.

Put it all back together and it been running fine since. Last week wife did a heavy load of jeans. It got out of balance and banged around pretty bad. Since then at the end of the spin, it clanks loudly. If she puts it to slow, there is no clank. I thought maybe one of the balance springs popped off, but taking cabinet off now, nothing is missing. Running it with the cabinet off and no water, it doesn't do it. agitating, etc all seem fine. She's been running it on slow but that doesn't wring clothes out as well and it takes longer to dry in dryer.

Any thought? Should I live with the clank? It doesn't seem to affect anything else other than my ears.

 

[rickgburton]

I decided to do the full monty on it.

Good deal! I would have done the same. Those direct drive machines are good machines,

Running it with the cabinet off and no water, it doesn't do it.

Is the tub hitting the side? If it only does it with the cabinet on, I would suspect the snubbers. Did you replace any snubbers?

 

[michiganjim]

I did not. I was aware of the plastic things that allow the tub assembly to slide around and they looked fine.
It moves/slides smoothly. Looking online now, I see the parts and video. Without taking the whole basket/tub out, I can lift it up on one of the sides and see. one of the snubbers. I was able to get my hand in and feel it. It doesn't appear too be worn or damaged.

Are the snubbers supposed to prevent the tub from movement or absorb or limit rotational torque on the tub/basket when the cycle tells it to apply the brake to stop the spin? I thought the springs severed this purpose. Looking at it from the top, when I manually push the dial to stop spinning, it looks like the torque causes the tub to "rebound" about 3-5" of rotation. Is this normal?

 

[Jake]

Since then at the end of the spin, it clanks loudly.

When I worked at Sears as a Sears tech. that was very common, its your basket drive/brake assembly has worn out.

Here is the basket drive brake assembly for your model:
W10820043 Basktdrive

Jake

 

[rickgburton]

Jake nailed it!

 

[Jake]

LOL, I've replaced so many I can do them in my sleep!

 

[michiganjim]

The problem is I may have been asleep when i replaced the basket drive, (which I erroneously referred to above as clutch/brake drive) As mentioned, I messed up the lip when trying to pry out the seal. I bought a used unit from the same shop as the rebuilt tranny and then successfully (without damaging it) replaced the seals in the used one I bought.

I don't recall the brake shoes being worn but didn't pay attention to them as if they were brake shoes or pads on a car. Nor did I replace the spring. Other than the suspension springs, the only spring I changed was to put a blue spring on the new spin clutch which matched the original. Before I pull the thing apart again I want to confirm what do you mean by "worn? Is it the brake shoes and or weak spring? What is producing the clank sound?

When I observe the spin cycle stop with the knob on "slow" it clunks but not as bad as on "fast" . Am I drawing the right correlation to stopping a car at 60 mph vs 30 mph and the stopping inertia is greater? I would think, new shoes would stop if faster than worn ones and more inertia would be transferred. Whether slow or fast, this inertia is transferred to the whole tub and the recoil is damped by the suspension spring. Again, it's the whole tub that is jerking.

Is the clunk coming from the basket drive brake or is it from the recoil from the basket stopping? With the timer knob pushed in and the washer machine completely stopped, I can grab the tub and give it a quick clockwise rotational jerk. This produces the same metallic clunk. Is the clunk still coming from the basket bake/drive?

 

[Jake]

Ok, well the one big difference between you and me replacing these parts, every part I ordered was OEM NEW.

So, I really don't know the answers to those questions since your using used parts.

Maybe Rick has insight into those questions.

It would help if you made a video of that noise and upload it here, or you can upload the video to Youtube and post the Youtube link here. Or share your video per Google Drive, Dropbox, or Microsoft OneDrive and post the share link here.

Jake

 

[rickgburton]

Used parts are OK. I've used them but you gotta make sure you're not buying someone else's problem. That's not easy if you don't know what to look for.

 

[Jake]

That's exactly right Rick.

I'm a perfectionist and I cringe at using used parts when new parts are available, I can't even remember if or when I replaced a part with a used part , Really I can't remember anytime doing that, because I hate recalls. LOL

Happy Thanksgiving!

Jake

 

[michiganjim]

Good morning and happy thanksgiving. I'm just chilling and have been banned from the kitchen, lest I interfere with preparation of the feast. I took a video about 3 minutes. Trying to share from my phone via email yielded a message "too big" Another option was link sharing. I did that and sent the link email to myself. It worked fast and the linked video plays easily on my desktop. This is the link and hopefully video, complete with my voice and "noises" can be heard.

https://linksharing.samsungcloud.com/cFsyJL3F7SUV

I just noticed a message when the link came to my email that it is only valid till 11/27. Not sure what the deal with that is, and maybe I'll have to link it again, if you don't get back to my post before it expires. Perhaps other guys aren't allowed in their kitchen and will see my post before settling down to watch football later.

 

[Jake]

Yes, I saw the video, that's the same as all the Kenmore Washers I fixed when I replaced the basketdrive brake assembly. Trust me, I've replaced hundreds of these when I worked for Sears and the NEW basketdrive brake assembly ALWAYS fixed it.

I've not sure what that clicking was when it was starting to spin, it may be related to the basketdrive brake assembly problem.

Jake

 

[michiganjim]

I'm not doubting your assessment the basket drive is bad. In fact, I have a new one on order. however, I am a nuts and bolts guy. If a doc said I have a bad heart, I'd want detail. Atrial / ventral valve bad and not letting enough red juice get thtogh? Arteries clogged and starving the heart muscle? Weak muscle not strong enough blood/oxygen? Angina or Arrhythmia messing up the timing? Obvious, none of this is DIY stuff but does provide a high level explanation of what is bad.

On the other hand, the basket drive is essentially a hollow shaft with brake shoes on the end and turns inside the spinner support tube. It connects to the drum with a block at the top. The shoes are activated by an eccentric lever. Inside the tube are bearings and seals that wear out. Bearings can wear and seals can leak. (I changed them)

What I don't understand is what effect worn shoes have. Obviously, since the tub stops spinning, the brake is working. If it was an old car with brake shoes worn down to the rivets, they'd eventually stop the car, but scrape the drums.

Can somebody give me an explanation of what is clunking against what?

Again, I believe what you're saying, I just want to know for my own satisfaction. I'm also second guessing myself and wonder if when I put the transmission with the new spin clutch that I didn't align the plastic thing? Or maybe I didn't tighten the spanner nut on the drive block enough?

 

[Jake]

Yes, that's the difference between Appliances Techs and folks that what the details to know the engineering side of this, that's the part I can't help you with. As a 34 year Career appliance tech and running 8-10 service calls a day and driving 100 miles a day too boot, all I want to do is get in and out and the customers house with a working machine that I fixed and get to the next service call. LOL

Hopefully another tech. can assist you with the engineering side of this.

I'm also second guessing myself and wonder if when I put the transmission with the new spin clutch that I didn't align the plastic thing? Or maybe I didn't tighten the spanner nut on the drive block enough?

For that just watch the videos again to make sure you put it all together properly, just click the part links below and you will see a video of each part replacement details.

Here's the clutch for your model:
285785 Clutch Assembly


Here's the transmission for your model:
3360629 Neutral Drain Transmission


Here's the tub drive block for your model:
Drive Block WP389140


You can see the comparison here:

See the one on the left, its the old one, the one on the right is the new one. It has to have those 2 ear slots.

Jake

 

[michiganjim]

Maybe I'm not completely understanding the purpose of this site. I'm on several DIY forums where I give advice on cars, John Deere tractors and household plumbing, etc repairs. I've never had any formal training other than my father teaching me at age 12 to solder copper plumbing. I'm 76 now. Everything else came from hands on experience and an understanding of mechanical stuff starting with taking apart my bicycle at about age 14 and informal apprenticeship with a neighbor who raced stock cars. I've personally rebuilt engines in motorcycles, VW bugs, small block Chevies, Mercedes Benz and Audis, plus frame up restoration of several 60's muscle cars.

For most of those 76 yrs, I worked in computer service management and sales. When I'm offering advice on a particular item, it comes from personal experience, not a youtube video. I'm on these sites, simply to help others and give back to others. Certainly not to boast about how good I am or talk down to someone. I find it hard to believe someone who can replace a basket drive in his sleep doesn't understand the mechanics of it or the failure point. To use the doctor analogy, it would be like my doc saying I need a new heart and not understanding the "engineering" aspect. Ok, nurse, order a new heart from "Heart Direct" I'll watch a youtube video and pick up a scapel.

Yes, those are the same parts I replaced, including the drive block with a new one from Sears Direct. However, the repairs I did to this washer were about 6 month ago. At my age, it's possible I don't remember whether I gave the spanner nut at extra whack with the hammer. That the washer has been working / agitating and spinning fine up till a couple weeks ago is a pretty good indication I put the correct transmission in. Given the oil leak in the original, I considered replacing the input shaft seal but it would have been messy. Nor did I want to pay for an OEM tranny. yes, I did buy a used basket drive and I did replace the upper/lower seals. Between both items, the oily / watery oil that dripped previously are evident.

I will figure it out myself, just as i figured out how to change the sprocket bearings in my bike at 14 yrs old. I guarantee once I pull the tranny and basket drive, I will discover what is clunking. Of course before I get that far, I might realize the spanner nut wasn't tightened enough. Regardless what I find, it's extremely likely my knees and back will hurt the same as they did 6 months ago. It wasn't my desire to learn the engineering by asking for detail but to possibly limit the pain to my body.

 

[rickgburton]

Check the brake cam driver

 

[Jake]

Maybe I'm not completely understanding the purpose of this site.

The key to this site is simple appliance repair help, replacing the most common parts that fail, we DON'T dive deep in the theory of operation and engineering of home appliances, people want quick and simple appliance repair help to get them back up and running again.

This site actually got started by accident, I never set out to make a site like this when I first started it in 2004, in fact there was not even a forum back then, just a blog for me only to keep track of my daily repairs I was doing. Then google started indexing it, which I was not aware was going to happen, then people started coming to ask questions in the comment section of the blog and it was starting to get overwhelming so I decided to add the forum and here we are today. LOL

There might be other appliance repair sites that dive very deep into the theory of operation and engineering, which is all fine and good. So if you want that deep dive into the theory of operation and engineering side of appliances, you can search google for those sites.

Jake