silent
Member
- Model Number
- 417.29042991
- Brand
- Sears Kenmore
- Age
- More than 10 years
Hello everyone - I wanted to introduce myself and tell my story.
I've visited this forum regularly over the years to help me keep my 417.29042991 front load washing machine running so first of all thanks to all of you for helping me with this forum and now it's my turn to pay you back and pay it forward.
I've fixed the inevitable leak between the 2 halves with RTV and a total of 23 through-bolts by drilling out the where the screws had originally bit into the plastic. I wasn't happy with the lack of pulling force that the screws exhibited due to the slight weakening of the plastic. Good ol' automotive RTV has sealed up toilets for me in the past and now it's keeping water in my front loader Kenmore.
I keep spare parts for everything that I own and learn how to fix it. I love knowing my machines thorougly. This way I don't have to keep buying new stuff and pay service guys to come and tell me I have to replace this or that and pay for the privilege of hearing it. I purposefully seek out items that are repairable and I then I use them forever. With this mindset, my wife and I are able to travel and even afford a new house with the money we've saved.
So now down to the hard yards - the first problem we originally had was the lack of the pump being able to remove water from the unit back in about 2000 (within the 2 year window of ownership by my parents) so Mom just bought a new set and stored these. They sat in the basement unused for 14 years until I got married and Mom gifted them to us. The pump issue was seized from sitting and a nickel wedged like a butterfly valve in a carburetor. Once the pump was freed, it wouldn't move water because the pressure would cause the nickel to swivel shut and block the exit. It's pumped fine now for 8 years.
I wear bib-overalls and as a corn-fed Nebraskan often is, they are like wearing circus tents. We never run the machine on high speed spin and my wife never overloads the unit. All was well day after day, week after week, month after month, and year after year, until one day, 2 weeks ago - my wife said, "There is something wrong with the washing machine." Now I keep spare parts on hand for the thing - timers, control boards, assorted bits and pieces and so I thought I would just order a few more parts and swap out some pieces and I'd be up and running. No dice - I replaced the components with every timer and control board (including some marketed as NEW on ebay) that I had and that motor would not move.
After much searching online, I found a motor diagnostic sheet. The older ones (Frigidaire/Electrolux/Kenmore) listed terminal 9 and 9a as the ones to check, buy my unit was newer and required checking terminals 11 and 11a. I deduced this by simply tracing raw wires that go to the control board and following them back to the timer. Everywhere I looked, I had 120VAC. This only meant one thing: The control board was shot. It seems you can't buy a working one any more and everyone that claims to have one new refunds your money and tells you they can't get it any more. In the mean time, I've found a couple of ebay sellers who sell control board refurbishment services. The control board number for my unit is: 131789600 There is no point in sharing a link to ebay in this post since listings come and go. If you're reading this, simply search for 131789600 and read every listing you find and eventually, if the people are still doing the work, you'll find the listing.
I have very little experience with electronics, but I can tell you the orientation of a diode and if it's failed or not. I can eyeball a capacitor and tell you if it's suspect or not, and I can wire up a trailer - you know stuff like automotive soldering, heat shrink tubing, and making my own copper terminals out of copper pipe, and I know enough about electronics that manufacturers don't design for longevity - only to last just as long until you've forgotten how much you paid for the thing so you are tempted to purchase it again.
I suspected my point of failure was the bridge rectifier and/or triac and since a failed bridge rectifier will toast a triac (or thyristor as it's called), you always replace them in pairs. Of course you don't have to if you own a scope and know how to read it and I strike out on both counts. I found a French web forum where a guy bought a lathe that was powered with a very similar looking board and his solution to his non-running motor was to replace the bridge rectifier and triac but not before he toasted a couple triacs first.
https://www.usinages.com/threads/probleme-de-regulation-variateur-tour-wabeco-1989.135175/ (Use Google translate)
First step was to take my original control board and remove the metal shield. This takes a little bit of effort with some nice, square edged pliers to squeeze the split metal piece that is wedging it to the PC board. You also have to unbolt the bridge rectifier and take the clip off the triac. So here are the cross reference numbers:
On my board, the bridge rectifier is a Spain-produced FAGOR brand: FB2508L-B380/340-25L (as of this writing someone has them on ebay from Europe)
On ebay, for $7.99 each, it referenced nicely to a Multicomp Pro bridge rectifier with this specification:
Maximum Gate Trigger Voltage:
25 V
Peak Forward Voltage:
1.1 V
Peak Surge Current:
25 A
Peak Reverse Repetitive Voltage:
800 V
Diode Configuration:
Single
Maximum Continuous Current:
25 A
Number of Pins:
4
Series:
GBPC
I got it with spade terminals (it was cheaper and quicker to get it from ebay) and I simply cut off the leads from the original unit, soldered the leads to the spade terminals, and then carefully measured the proper height of the rectifier so that when I fastened it to the heat sink shield, it was precisely at the right height. It took a bit of careful finaggling, but I got everything lined up right.
Next off was locating the thyristor. My number was: T2522MH (ST PHIL)
Which cross referenced to: S0807MH but both of these were components found only in Europe. https://www.google.com/search?q=S08...HZsYBswQ_AUoA3oECAEQBQ&biw=1920&bih=981&dpr=1
So using this page: https://www.web-bcs.com/scr/thy/s0/S0807MH.php I discovered the current spec is a TO-220
I also found that BTA24-600 is another valid spec.
I was able to buy these from digi-key: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/ween-semiconductors/BT136-600E/L01,127/2119424?utm_adgroup=Thyristors - TRIACs&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping_Product_Discrete Semiconductor Products&utm_term=&utm_content=Thyristors - TRIACs&gclid=Cj0KCQiArt6PBhCoARIsAMF5wail7Em0yynPOoplnJp1HsQduHKntlxwrtaEGeje_RkA1_2AlxAVw0waAulLEALw_wcB
AND I found these afterwards with a spec I liked better so despite ordering 5 of the first ones, I ended up ordering and using one of these:
www.digikey.com
So armed with my trusty little soldering iron and a little time, I managed to solder on the new components. My wife helped run the solder-sucker to clean up the board a bit and installation was a snap.
Once I replaced both of these components (using thermal pasted from my computer builds), I hooked up my old motor ( I bought a new one the process) and using the diagnostic wheel from the repair manual that you stick over the cycle knob to know what part of the cycle your machine is in, I was able to select a a spin setting and I watched my old motor spring to life. Success!!!
Just about 5 minutes ago, the now mostly reassembled Kenmore buzzed to let us know that the laundry was done. In the spirit of Red Green - my wife finds me handy and she's now drying our first load of successfully washed clothes.
Before I conclude this story (which I leave here to help others and to use as future reference for myself) - I was curious about the 4MHz integrated circuit chip on the board. It had a sticker on it with the number 47 980-00 - when peeling back the sticker I found printed right on the IC itself: PIC16C58B 04/P 9916HAJ and believe it or not, it's a chip that of this writing is still available from mouser:
Truly the achilles heal of these machines was the control board. So now I have a 22+ year old washing machine still kicking strong. This goes nicely with the 1989 Buick (which is also white) that we use as a daily driver.
Included you will find the helpful segment wheel that allows you to precisely select what part of the washing cycle you wish to engage.
Thanks for reading and I hope this helps some of you.
silent
I've visited this forum regularly over the years to help me keep my 417.29042991 front load washing machine running so first of all thanks to all of you for helping me with this forum and now it's my turn to pay you back and pay it forward.
I've fixed the inevitable leak between the 2 halves with RTV and a total of 23 through-bolts by drilling out the where the screws had originally bit into the plastic. I wasn't happy with the lack of pulling force that the screws exhibited due to the slight weakening of the plastic. Good ol' automotive RTV has sealed up toilets for me in the past and now it's keeping water in my front loader Kenmore.
I keep spare parts for everything that I own and learn how to fix it. I love knowing my machines thorougly. This way I don't have to keep buying new stuff and pay service guys to come and tell me I have to replace this or that and pay for the privilege of hearing it. I purposefully seek out items that are repairable and I then I use them forever. With this mindset, my wife and I are able to travel and even afford a new house with the money we've saved.
So now down to the hard yards - the first problem we originally had was the lack of the pump being able to remove water from the unit back in about 2000 (within the 2 year window of ownership by my parents) so Mom just bought a new set and stored these. They sat in the basement unused for 14 years until I got married and Mom gifted them to us. The pump issue was seized from sitting and a nickel wedged like a butterfly valve in a carburetor. Once the pump was freed, it wouldn't move water because the pressure would cause the nickel to swivel shut and block the exit. It's pumped fine now for 8 years.
I wear bib-overalls and as a corn-fed Nebraskan often is, they are like wearing circus tents. We never run the machine on high speed spin and my wife never overloads the unit. All was well day after day, week after week, month after month, and year after year, until one day, 2 weeks ago - my wife said, "There is something wrong with the washing machine." Now I keep spare parts on hand for the thing - timers, control boards, assorted bits and pieces and so I thought I would just order a few more parts and swap out some pieces and I'd be up and running. No dice - I replaced the components with every timer and control board (including some marketed as NEW on ebay) that I had and that motor would not move.
After much searching online, I found a motor diagnostic sheet. The older ones (Frigidaire/Electrolux/Kenmore) listed terminal 9 and 9a as the ones to check, buy my unit was newer and required checking terminals 11 and 11a. I deduced this by simply tracing raw wires that go to the control board and following them back to the timer. Everywhere I looked, I had 120VAC. This only meant one thing: The control board was shot. It seems you can't buy a working one any more and everyone that claims to have one new refunds your money and tells you they can't get it any more. In the mean time, I've found a couple of ebay sellers who sell control board refurbishment services. The control board number for my unit is: 131789600 There is no point in sharing a link to ebay in this post since listings come and go. If you're reading this, simply search for 131789600 and read every listing you find and eventually, if the people are still doing the work, you'll find the listing.
I have very little experience with electronics, but I can tell you the orientation of a diode and if it's failed or not. I can eyeball a capacitor and tell you if it's suspect or not, and I can wire up a trailer - you know stuff like automotive soldering, heat shrink tubing, and making my own copper terminals out of copper pipe, and I know enough about electronics that manufacturers don't design for longevity - only to last just as long until you've forgotten how much you paid for the thing so you are tempted to purchase it again.
I suspected my point of failure was the bridge rectifier and/or triac and since a failed bridge rectifier will toast a triac (or thyristor as it's called), you always replace them in pairs. Of course you don't have to if you own a scope and know how to read it and I strike out on both counts. I found a French web forum where a guy bought a lathe that was powered with a very similar looking board and his solution to his non-running motor was to replace the bridge rectifier and triac but not before he toasted a couple triacs first.
https://www.usinages.com/threads/probleme-de-regulation-variateur-tour-wabeco-1989.135175/ (Use Google translate)
First step was to take my original control board and remove the metal shield. This takes a little bit of effort with some nice, square edged pliers to squeeze the split metal piece that is wedging it to the PC board. You also have to unbolt the bridge rectifier and take the clip off the triac. So here are the cross reference numbers:
On my board, the bridge rectifier is a Spain-produced FAGOR brand: FB2508L-B380/340-25L (as of this writing someone has them on ebay from Europe)
On ebay, for $7.99 each, it referenced nicely to a Multicomp Pro bridge rectifier with this specification:
Maximum Gate Trigger Voltage:
25 V
Peak Forward Voltage:
1.1 V
Peak Surge Current:
25 A
Peak Reverse Repetitive Voltage:
800 V
Diode Configuration:
Single
Maximum Continuous Current:
25 A
Number of Pins:
4
Series:
GBPC
I got it with spade terminals (it was cheaper and quicker to get it from ebay) and I simply cut off the leads from the original unit, soldered the leads to the spade terminals, and then carefully measured the proper height of the rectifier so that when I fastened it to the heat sink shield, it was precisely at the right height. It took a bit of careful finaggling, but I got everything lined up right.
Next off was locating the thyristor. My number was: T2522MH (ST PHIL)
Which cross referenced to: S0807MH but both of these were components found only in Europe. https://www.google.com/search?q=S08...HZsYBswQ_AUoA3oECAEQBQ&biw=1920&bih=981&dpr=1
So using this page: https://www.web-bcs.com/scr/thy/s0/S0807MH.php I discovered the current spec is a TO-220
I also found that BTA24-600 is another valid spec.
I was able to buy these from digi-key: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/ween-semiconductors/BT136-600E/L01,127/2119424?utm_adgroup=Thyristors - TRIACs&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping_Product_Discrete Semiconductor Products&utm_term=&utm_content=Thyristors - TRIACs&gclid=Cj0KCQiArt6PBhCoARIsAMF5wail7Em0yynPOoplnJp1HsQduHKntlxwrtaEGeje_RkA1_2AlxAVw0waAulLEALw_wcB
AND I found these afterwards with a spec I liked better so despite ordering 5 of the first ones, I ended up ordering and using one of these:
Q6025R5TP Littelfuse Inc. | Discrete Semiconductor Products | DigiKey
Order today, ships today. Q6025R5TP – TRIAC Standard 600 V 25 A Through Hole TO-220 Non-Isolated Tab from Littelfuse Inc.. Pricing and Availability on millions of electronic components from Digi-Key Electronics.
So armed with my trusty little soldering iron and a little time, I managed to solder on the new components. My wife helped run the solder-sucker to clean up the board a bit and installation was a snap.
Once I replaced both of these components (using thermal pasted from my computer builds), I hooked up my old motor ( I bought a new one the process) and using the diagnostic wheel from the repair manual that you stick over the cycle knob to know what part of the cycle your machine is in, I was able to select a a spin setting and I watched my old motor spring to life. Success!!!
Just about 5 minutes ago, the now mostly reassembled Kenmore buzzed to let us know that the laundry was done. In the spirit of Red Green - my wife finds me handy and she's now drying our first load of successfully washed clothes.
Before I conclude this story (which I leave here to help others and to use as future reference for myself) - I was curious about the 4MHz integrated circuit chip on the board. It had a sticker on it with the number 47 980-00 - when peeling back the sticker I found printed right on the IC itself: PIC16C58B 04/P 9916HAJ and believe it or not, it's a chip that of this writing is still available from mouser:
Truly the achilles heal of these machines was the control board. So now I have a 22+ year old washing machine still kicking strong. This goes nicely with the 1989 Buick (which is also white) that we use as a daily driver.
Included you will find the helpful segment wheel that allows you to precisely select what part of the washing cycle you wish to engage.
Thanks for reading and I hope this helps some of you.
silent
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