KUDK03ITBS0 - install tripping gfci

Noblaze

Premium Member
Joined
May 27, 2019
Messages
12
Location
Mn
Model Number
KUDK03ITBS0
Brand
KitchenAid
Age
More than 10 years
Alright, we moved this KitchenAid unit from kitchen to basement. In the kitchen it worked fine, now after moving it having some electrical trouble.

When the hot and neutral are connected to the dishwasher (no ground) it turns on and gfci doesn't trip.

When the ground is connected the gfci trips instantly.

The dishwasher that was in the basement did not have this problem.

It's something I'm doing I just don't know what it is.

Thanks!
 

rickgburton

Appliance Tech - Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
35,478
Location
Murray, Utah 84107, United States
Take it off the GFCI circuit. Most manufactures recommend not using a GFCI. Here's why; Ground faults occur when current can find a path to ground. The usual ground-fault suspects include worn wire insulation, conductive dusts, water, or other “soft grounds.” Another name for a ground fault is current leakage. Although wiring insulation is designed to keep electricity in the wire/conductor, all insulators have some conductivity. Even air is not a perfect insulator. Insulation conducts current through both electrically resistive and capacitive paths.

If the wire insulation is old or damaged, its resistance is lower and current leakage could become substantial. The wire insulation protecting longer wires/conductors has higher capacitance, which can cause even more current leakage. On GFCI-protected circuits, current leakage causes ghost tripping. When troubleshooting “ghost” trips, sometimes looking for the current leaking culprit can be almost impossible without specialized test equipment. Look for any small water leaks under the tub. That's a common cause.
 

Noblaze

Premium Member
Joined
May 27, 2019
Messages
12
Location
Mn
Thank you for the reply.

Seems odd that the previous dishwasher didn't cause the problem.

The GFCI appears to be the first thing in the circuit. From there the dishwasher, lights, adjoining room lights and a fridge. When the gfci trips, they all are off.

Makes zero sense, but it was a basement wet bar install and finishing done by previous owner years after the home was built.

The GFCI is also in the middle of the living room near the floor. The only reason I can think of it being put there is there's a water heater on the other side of the wall.

So my options are to swap that gfci out, or tap into a different circuit for the dishwasher?


In the later case, the current wiring is hard wired in for the dishwasher so extensive work would be required to safely remove that and rewire.

An outlet swap seems most economical and efficient, but is it safe?
 

rickgburton

Appliance Tech - Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
35,478
Location
Murray, Utah 84107, United States
Noblaze said:
The GFCI appears to be the first thing in the circuit.
The GFCI should be installed downstream of the source:
43570


Noblaze said:
So my options are to swap that gfci out
Or find the current leak in the machine. Swapping out the GFCI outlet may not solve your problem
43571
 

Noblaze

Premium Member
Joined
May 27, 2019
Messages
12
Location
Mn
I'll verify the gfci installation this weekend.

Any tips on tracking down a current leak in the machine?

Thanks
 

Noblaze

Premium Member
Joined
May 27, 2019
Messages
12
Location
Mn
It's had a week to dry, obviously internal components may still have some moisture.

I started out by disconnecting the biggest connectors from the machine control board. Presumably pump and heating.

Rewired power and turned on the breaker, gfci did not trip. Plugged each back of the two large connectors one by one back in, no tripping.

Pressed buttons with door open, got lights on the machine and no tripping.

Shut the door with start light blinking, as if the machine was going to start. The washing light flashed on and the gfci tripped.

Appears the short is happening right at start of cycle, so the pump?
 

rickgburton

Appliance Tech - Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
35,478
Location
Murray, Utah 84107, United States
It's probably not a short. That's what's going to make it difficult to find. It's not caused by the pump. The drain pump doesn't get energized right away. When you close the door you get a complete circuit path through the door switch, through the fill valve drive circuit on the main control board, Through the wire harness to the fill valve. At the same time through the vent circuit on the board through the wires to the vent.
 
Top