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KUDS01ILBT5 KitchenAid Dishwasher - Has power to control panel but no lights and no function

IMDunFixin

Premium Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2021
Messages
6
Location
Oklahoma
Model Number
KUDS01ILBT5
Brand
KitchenAid
Age
More than 10 years
Dishwasher 20 years old; has worked well. Replaced thermal fuse about a year ago. Worked fine until that fuse blew a few weeks ago. A few inches (2-3 gal) of water remained in the bottom. Replaced fuse again and on first cycle, it blew the fuse at the same cycle step, with the same amount of water in the bottom. I jumped the fuse (for diagnostic purposes) but had no lights or functional buttons, so I called repairperson. He found a ground-fault in the wall outlet for the dishwasher; said that was likely the problem and to fix it and call again if machine still didn't work.

I punted on that one, with 50 year old house wiring, when I found a continuity (i.e., short) between the hot wire and bare ground wire (circuit breaker off) in the outlet; I called an electrician. Now that's all fixed with GFI receptacle etc. (The original outlet fell apart when removed). Now the electrical source is fixed, but the dishwasher is the same - there is power to unit, power to control panel, but no lights, no function to buttons.

I know the c panel has power to it, because when a non-contact electrical detector is placed on the other side of the c panel (door closed), the detector flashes and beeps from the vent all the way (about 20") to the other side of the door. I taped the buttons on the door switches down (closed) and closed the door - again, yes to power (beep beep beep), no unit lights and control buttons non-responsive. (And all this is with jumped thermal fuse). Called the appliance repairperson; he said it was control panel which was not manufactured anymore and not replaceable on 20 yo unit. (He had already come out once and didn't charge for finding the ground fault, so I totally understand how this was likely to be a loser service call for him).

With these symptoms, is the problem likely located in the control panel (I can't see any circuit component burned or amiss, which is not definitive) so this is really the end of the line, or is it possibly the discharge (water removal) pump that is faulty? That pump assembly is replaceable for around $180 (parts), but would be a pain pain pain for a geezer to attempt. How could I tell -- check for continuity across the pump electrodes vs high resistance?
Just wanting another opinion before I go peel out the bucks for a new dishwasher. I was kinda hoping the dishwasher would last as long as the electric stove and microwave which were bought at the same time 20 years ago.
Thanks. I appreciate it.
 

Jake

Appliance Tech - Admin
Staff member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
121,870
Location
McMullen Valley, Arizona
Hi,

Yes, usually when that happens you have a short in the control panel causing this problem. But you can confirm that from the instructions I'm posting below with a meter.

They don't make the control panel in white or biscuit anymore, just black. The Black one is on backorder.

Here's the black control panel for your model: WP8531245

Checking keyswitch contacts:
--->Unplug dishwasher or disconnect power.
--->Remove connector P1 from the control board.
Using the table below(located in your tech data sheet, which I'm posting below), measure the resistance across the switch when the key is pressed.
NOTE: The meter must be connected with the proper polarity.
If using an ANALOG readout meter:
The resistance reading should go from infinity (open circuit) down to a readable ohm level. The level may be different depending on your meter, since there is a diode in the circuit.
If using a DIGITAL readout meter:
The resistance reading should go from infinity down to a readable ohm level. The level may be different depending on your meter, since there is a diode in the circuit.
If available, you could use the “Diode Test” function of a digital meter, which will give a voltage of about 1.2 VDC during the test.
➔ If any switches fail this test, replace the console panel/keypad assembly.
➔ If all switches test OK, replace the machine control board.

It if happens your control panel is good, then it would be the control board, but that's no longer available either.

Here's the control board for your model: WP8564543

Now is the best time to buy a new dishwasher, the 4th of July sales have already started at all appliance stores. We suggest Maytag dishwashers for the best reliability these days.

Jake
 

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IMDunFixin

Premium Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2021
Messages
6
Location
Oklahoma
Jake,
Thanks so much for your helpful information. The spec sheet was great. I need to get a new meter that has a "diode test" on it; but I tried to test using what I had. Both analog and digital meters read the same, which was infinite resistance (i.e., no connection) measured between P1 contacts, and pressing the matching front control buttons didn't make any difference. That result either confirms that the control panel is shorted and worthy of replacement or that I didn't do the test right. Maybe that electrical short in the outlet, although intermittent, was enough to fry a component. I have to consider - If we replaced the c panel, what if the washer would then not work because of a bad board or the pump motor? That would be an expensive dead end. All taken together, we are looking at new dishwashers.
A question about new dishwashers, particularly on the more common brands of the Whirlpool line - Maytag, Whirlpool, KitchenAid. I have noticed there tend to be two major groupings of these brands. [1] A lower tier in price (ca $450-650) with plastic fronts (more limited color choice than there was before pandemic), plastic tubs, sound level 50-60 dBA, fewer bells/whistles, etc. [2] A higher tier ($650-1200) with SS fronts, SS tubs, sound 40-50 dBA, other things like more filters or heaters, etc. KitchenAid is only at the upper price end; Maytag is in the higher tier but under KA; Whirlpool covers the spectrum of both tiers with more model choices, but generally starts in price about 1/2 KA and maxes lower than KA. Do they all have built-in planned obsolesce after 12 +/- 2 years anyway, so that there is not a significant difference between the tiers in basic function and durability? What do you think about plastic tubs. Does the plastic crack and parts break off like they have in our Maytag refrigerator? In extreme temperatures (cold or hot) and thermal expansion, cracked or broken plastic doesn't repair well with glue, including epoxy, silicon, superglue, and JB Weld. What do you see as an outcome using the plastic walls?
I appreciate your help.
 

Robert4

Premium Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2021
Messages
154
Location
Houston, TX
Does the plastic crack and parts break off like they have in our Maytag refrigerator?
Is it a newer model?

As for dishwashers, you've nailed the differences. In general for any appliance, the more bells and whistles, the more possible problems. You are also right that there used to be more color options on most higher end models before the pandemic. What color are you looking for?

I don't think any newer dishwasher can last 20 years with regular use, but Jake could probably tell you what the industry average is these days.
 

IMDunFixin

Premium Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2021
Messages
6
Location
Oklahoma
Thanks, Robert. Our Maytag is a French door type refrigerator/freezer. It's probably 15 years old now. Plastic pieces started breaking just out of warranty for that type of thing. It mostly havs involved moving parts, like the open & close lids to compartments such as the hydrator or butter shelf. There are not enough surfaces available to glue with strength the parts that break, and support pieces can't be made because there isn't enough clearance or the shim can't be glued to that slick surface on the plastic part. I don't recall that anything has cracked that involved the side of the wall that would compromise the insulation or allow condensation in the walls. Part of the clips that hold the filter in place broke. I did have to glue the inside part of the freezer sliding door when the sliding track froze up from the icemaker leading. But, the unit is working and we have no complaint about the Maytag, except that experience with the plastic breaking made me wonder about the maintenance of integrity of the plastic walls inside the dishwasher. Jake has suggested to consider Maytag. Both of the Maytag's on sale at Home Depot in my area have SS tubs and fronts, anyway, which would care of the plastic question.
Our countertop and other appliances are Biscuit color - more popular 20 years ago. Biscuit is limited now - stores local to me are pretty much limited to SS, Black, and White; some stocks are low on even these, with minimum 6-8 weeks wait time for more.
 

Jake

Appliance Tech - Admin
Staff member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
121,870
Location
McMullen Valley, Arizona
When PARTS start becoming No Longer Available, its more wise to start over with a new dishwasher.

I'm a very firm believer in Maytag. In my Kitchen now I bought a new Maytag Dishwasher in March 2014 when I moved from Oregon to Arizona and not a single problem with it at all.:)

Jake
 

IMDunFixin

Premium Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2021
Messages
6
Location
Oklahoma
Thank you, Jake. That is a very good recommendation. I like Maytag. We've had nothing but Maytag washers and dryers for over 50 years and only recently went to Speed Queen. Our Maytag French door refrigerator/freezer continues to serve well, as long as I check to make sure the doors are well closed every time I pass by. Single compressor units with freezers on the bottom are not thermodynamically efficient, because the heavier cooler air has to be pumped up against gravity. It's just that consumer demand exceeds gravity and good sense. CD>G. The repairperson who didn't want to work on our dishwasher recommended first KitchenAid and second Whirlpool. But they are all made by the same company and even have interchangeable part numbers. I think we will first look at Maytag dishwashers. Appreciate all your advice.
(y):)
 

Jake

Appliance Tech - Admin
Staff member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
121,870
Location
McMullen Valley, Arizona
KitchenAid and Whirlpool Dishwasher are very good too, but if you look at both of our repair forums on them as of late, you will see BOTH have been having wash motor issues and Maytag has not.:)

Here's one example:

Jake
 

IMDunFixin

Premium Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2021
Messages
6
Location
Oklahoma
Hmm. These are current data references very relevant to our decision. Okay, it looks for sure we are on the search for a Maytag in OKC. Home Depot lists two SS models as "Special purchase" - not sure what that means exactly, but maybe in means they have those models in stock. Jake, I really appreciate your time and input on our arduous process traveling from fixing an old KitchenAid dishwasher through the land of brands to selecting a new Maytag model. It has been very helpful to making a decision, which I think is the best one. Thank you!
 

Jake

Appliance Tech - Admin
Staff member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
121,870
Location
McMullen Valley, Arizona

IMDunFixin

Premium Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2021
Messages
6
Location
Oklahoma
I have just connected (drain, water supply, electric) a Kenmore 13222 dishwasher, delivered today in my home. The lights come on and there are, so far, no observable water leaks. I have not yet pushed the unit completely under the counter. One little problem: I cannot get the door to release. It has been locked from the time I uncrated the unit to when it was all connected; I haven't been able to open the door. I was thinking of trying to remove the clip from behind the frame. My KitchenAid had a mechanical release that was built into the handle. I cannot feel anything to release with the Kenmore. Is the door release electronic?

Also, are these units supposed to be delivered with a physical copy of a user's manual, or are these things only on-line now? Thanks.
 
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