Maytag Neptune TL Clutch Pulley and Tumblers Locked or Seized

Jeff_in_MD

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Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
11
Location
Clarksville, Maryland
Model Number
FAV6800AWW
Brand
Maytag
Age
6-10 years
Would appreciate it anyone could help me on how to proceed with my issue. The problem started when the drive belt started to squeal. The two tumblers in the basket are now seized. The wash basket moves by hand CCW but not CW so I think based on another thread, the outer tub bearings are OK. The drive belt moves CCW but does not move CW (when looking from above the washer). I have removed both tumblers and there is nothing jammed in the gear driving each one. Could something have gotten jammed inside the transmission or maybe I have bad bearings? Is my next step to remove the tumbler bearings then the transmission and spinner from inside the wash tub (I have the service manual)? Or, do I lay the washing on its back and remove the pulley and the clutch? I would prefer doing everything from the top if possible. Thanks in advance for any help.
 

Jake

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Jake

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I'll email him.:)

Jake
 

dh1200s

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Would appreciate it anyone could help me on how to proceed with my issue. The problem started when the drive belt started to squeal. The two tumblers in the basket are now seized. The wash basket moves by hand CCW but not CW so I think based on another thread, the outer tub bearings are OK. The drive belt moves CCW but does not move CW (when looking from above the washer). I have removed both tumblers and there is nothing jammed in the gear driving each one. Could something have gotten jammed inside the transmission or maybe I have bad bearings? Is my next step to remove the tumbler bearings then the transmission and spinner from inside the wash tub (I have the service manual)? Or, do I lay the washing on its back and remove the pulley and the clutch? I would prefer doing everything from the top if possible. Thanks in advance for any help.
Jeff,

What are the first to digits of the serial number of your FAV6800A Range is 10 thru 18, 18 being the highest number range I have seen from other owner issue.

The Clutch Pulley One-Way needle bearings may be seized. Tranny could be locked up but I have not seen a trany lock up todate but there is always a first time. I'm an owner like you but have done a lot of support on this forum for the FAV6800A &FAV9800A machines.

I would drop the Clutch Pulley out of the machine and see if that One-Way bearing is seized. As Jake mentioned go to the FAV6800A sticky start at the 5th post down. you can grab the SM form that 5th post.

Then go to post 6 in the Sticky and follow Clutch Pulley removal. Once the Clutch Pulley is relay the condition of the Clutch Pulley One-Way needle bearing mounted on the White bearing plate of the Clutch Pulley.

Also let me know if your series machine use the Upper Bearing ring that is really important to for me to know if your machine needs a Outer Tub bearing rebuild.

Also let me know how much down time you can tolerate. If the Clutch Pulley One-Way bearing is preventing the Motor from spining CW the wash/agitate direction a quick fix is to replace the Clutch Pulley.

As I mentioned we can't rule out a tranny jam but they are rare for me to see from other owner issues and I have worked many.

I'm at work and big time involved with Time Change work. I will check back in as soon as I can which my be sometime late tomorrow morning.........Dick
 
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Jeff_in_MD

Premium Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
11
Location
Clarksville, Maryland
Dick,
Thanks for the assistance. My serial number is 10509171EE so I guess I have a series 10 (purchased in 2004). I have pulled out the clutch pulley and have attached pictures of the assembly and of each of the bearings. (I used blocks to raise up the front rather than laying it on its back right now). They looked pretty good to me considering the years on the washer (didn't see any rust inside the bearings for either one). The Lower Bearing (Clutch one-way bearing) only rotates CW and not CCW (white bearing plate) by hand. The Upper Bearing also only rotates CW and not CCW (light green bearing plate). I believe based on your other threads, that's how they should work.

Both tumbler gears inside the tub are still locked up tight (lots of mineral deposits around them). Without the clutch, the tub rotates freely in either direction, so I can't see why I would need an Outer Tub bearing rebuild, but maybe I don't fully understand when you need a tub bearing rebuild.

Do I still have an issue with the clutch bearings or should I go ahead remove the tumbler bearings and transmission? If I don't have the Slick 50 one tube (don't know where to buy it - Ace hardware didn't carry it) to re-lube the clutch one-way bearings, can I use Mobil One synthetic auto oil, or a small amount wheel bearing grease?

Also attached are photos of the inside of the tub with the tumblers removed showing the mineral deposits after 8 years of use with hard water. I am also in the process of cleaning the tumblers and the inside of the tub. I also had a close-up of the tumbler gears but there must be a 5 image upload limit.

Jeff


FAV6800_Ser10_Upper_Lower_Bearings_Hub.jpg FAV6800_Ser10_Lower_Bearing.jpg FAV6800_Ser10_Upper&Lower_Bearings.jpg FAV6800_Ser10_UpperBearing.jpg FAV6800_Tumblers_Removed_Mineral_Deposits.jpg
 
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Jeff_in_MD

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Messages
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Location
Clarksville, Maryland
More Images of the FAV6800 - Mineral Deposits and Clutch Spring

Dick,
Here are two more images - one is a close-up of the tumbler gears inside the tub showing all the mineral deposits and the other of the clutch
spring inside the clutch pulley carrier (spring looked OK to me but there was some brown fine dust inside).


FAV6800_Ser10_Clutch_Basket_&_Spring.jpgFAV6800_Tumbler_Gears_&_Mineral_Deposits.jpgFAV6800_Tumblers_Removed_Mineral_Deposits.jpg


One other thing - took me a liitle while to figure out how to PUMP OUT out the rest of the water from the tub using the service mode (even with the Service Manual, ). Here is procedure I used (applies to the Model FAV6800): Get into Service Mode by pressing the Enviro Plus and Spin Only keys together for 3 seconds or until the control beeps. Go to the Board Output Test by pressing the Delicates key. Press the Presoak key ("Drain Pump" function) until all the water is pumped out then press Presoak again to stop the pump. Press Delicates key to cancel the Board Output Test. Press Off to exit service mode (can reference pages 14 and 16 in the Service Manual).


As for the down time I can tolerate - hopefully no more than a week more or until the wife tells me to buy a new washer.


Jeff
 

dh1200s

Member
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Dec 5, 2008
Messages
218
Location
PA
Jeff.


""Both tumbler gears inside the tub are still locked up tight (lots of mineral deposits around them)."" They will not move by hand of those pinion gears lots of gear/drive line resistance. Thru the Washer lid I can rotat the tumblers with very great resistance.

With the Clutch Pulley removed can you rotate the square end agitator shaft by hand CW with a 7/16" open end wrench it should rotate by hand with only slight resistance either direction of rotation.

I have my test FAV6800A Series 10 machine with the Clutch Pulley removed and just tried it.

""One other thing - took me a liitle while to figure out how to PUMP OUT out the rest of the water from the tub using the service mode (even with the Service Manual, ). Here is procedure I used (applies to the Model FAV6800): Get into Service Mode by pressing the Enviro Plus and Spin Only keys together for 3 seconds or until the control beeps. Go to the Board Output Test by pressing the Delicates key. Press the Presoak key ("Drain Pump" function) until all the water is pumped out then press Presoak again to stop the pump. Press Delicates key to cancel the Board Output Test. Press Off to exit service mode (can reference pages 14 and 16 in the Service Manual).""

My bad I left that out of the Clutch Pulley sticky on this site but have mentioned in other Clutch Pulley repair post here and other sites. Excelent use of the SM in Serice Mode.

I asked owners to become familiar with the Service Manual and Service Mode. It's good tool for troubleshooting with the many modes you can place the washer Control Board in for diags/troubleshooting and the purpose you discussed. SM is a great tool for working on error codes such ad ND for No Drain and turning on the Drain Pump for troubleshooting.......lots of diag modes and test.

You can try to clean up Both those One Way bearings with WD-40 and then a recoat of WD-40 if no Slick 50 One Lube around. You can be find at Wal-Mart (some don't carry), Auto parts, Ace Hardware etc. Your Clutch Pulley looks to be in great shape if it has not been replaced to date. Like to know what the Cycle Count is on you machine when you get time and get back into Service Mode.

The rust you see on the One-Way Bearings is from wash water contimation root cause failed Tub Seal, Tranny O-Ring. Left to go unchecked you take out the Outer Tub bearings, Spinner Support bearings.

Your Clutch pulley is in real good shape if it has never been replaced for DC/UC unbalance errors.

Lets see if you can rotate the Agitator Shaft and check that those drive/pinion gears that engage the tumblers rotate............Dick
 

Jeff_in_MD

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Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
11
Location
Clarksville, Maryland
Dick,
I've about had it with this beast and am about ready to buy a new washer, definitely a more traditional design. To answer your questions in the last post, my cycle count is 2976, and no, the tumblers do not budge when I try to move the square agitator shaft with a wrench (have to hold the tub in place to keep it from turning). Shaft does not turn either way (except for moving the tub). Everything is frozen.

After that, it seemed obvious that the problem likely is with the transmission. I like the part in the manual when it says "Remove 4 Transmission mounting bolts", then "Lift Transmission Assembly from washer". They must be kidding. Tonight I have spent two hours trying to remove the trans (no to mention all the time spent cleaning all the mineral deposits and goo on top and around the trans). Have tried prying using large screwdrivers, crowbars, banging on it with a rubber mallet, and large box wrenches (see photo). It is so frozen I am afraid I will either crack the tub or break off chunks on the trans if I try to use more force.

I'm not sure what else to do other than sell off the good parts on Ebay and buy a new washer (Whirlpool?).

Appreciate all the help you have provided.

Jeff
Trying_to_remove_trans_assy.jpg
 
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Jeff_in_MD

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Mar 8, 2012
Messages
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Location
Clarksville, Maryland
Forgot another comment: In my opinion, the Maytag Neptune TL is NOT a washer to own if you have hard water. There are mineral deposits everywhere underneath the Tumblers and they attach like barnacles to a boat.

Jeff
</SPAN>
 

dh1200s

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Forgot another comment: In my opinion, the Maytag Neptune TL is NOT a washer to own if you have hard water. There are mineral deposits everywhere underneath the Tumblers and they attach like barnacles to a boat.

Jeff
</SPAN>
Jeff,

Good luck with your new machine.

My well water is soft low PH 5.0 real hard on copper plumbing if not treated.
 

Jeff_in_MD

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Mar 8, 2012
Messages
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Location
Clarksville, Maryland
Dick (or anyone else with a washer recommendation),

I would assume from your response that you have no special method of getting the transmission off other than what I tried (sorry for my frustrated rant)? You agree it is beyond repair?

Perhaps part of my problem with all the mineral deposits is using powered soap rather that liquid? Also, I probably should install a water softener to reduce the mineral buildup problem (I only have a neutralizer for the slightly acidic water).

For a new washer, any recommendations, top loader vs. front loader? Brand? Front loader used to use less water and removes more water in spin cycle? Not sure if there is a difference today with the new energy requirements. Top rated ones seem to be the Whirlpool Cabria models.

Thanks again for your help. Hopefully the information I gave could be helpful to others.

Jeff
 

dh1200s

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Messages
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Jeff,

Sorry for the late response. I'm editing this post I see the tranny bolts are out. Maybe some soft blows with a rubber mallet might break loose the tranny after soaking the whole tranny with CLR or some other home brew to break down the deposits.

I'm concerned the tranny can't be rotated with the 7/16 wrench on the square end of the agitator shaft. 10-4 on the water treatment.

Maybe Jake or one of the repair folks can help out with a recommendation on a new machine.
 

Jeff_in_MD

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Messages
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Location
Clarksville, Maryland
Dick,
The good news is I was finally able to remove the transmission using a very long crowbar and LOTS of force. The bad news is the formerly good trans has holes punched in it and is destroyed. The 4 trans bolts were quite hard to remove (you mentioned about this in a email) and one seemed to have had a bit of water seep through the bolt seals (some corrosion near bottom of bolt). As you can see in the pictures there is a large amount of crud underneath the trans and in the bottom of the tub (along with some trans fluid after I punctured it).

The agitator shaft still can't be rotated as it's frozen solid. Here is what I think I need with approx. prices (please correct me as necessary): Transmission ($130), Spinner sleeve and seal ($?), Tub seal ($23), O-ring ($4). Not sure if I would need a Spanner Support Assembly ($251) or the outer tub bearing since the tub spins freely. The Tube Seal and Bearing Kit combined costs a ridiculous $251 on one web site.

Prices on parts for the Neptune TL seem to have gone up a lot since I last bought them. Is this beast worth the time and cost to repair? Is my cycle count (2976) considered high for its age (about 7.5 years)?

Jeff

FAV6800_tub_bottom_trans_removed.jpgFAV6800_bottom_of_transmission_crud.jpgFAV6800_holes_in_trans_after_crowbar_removal.jpg
 

Jeff_in_MD

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Forgot to mention - Its also possible the tub got distorted or damaged (no obvious damage when I looked at it) when I used so much force with the crowbar against it to remove the tranmission.

Jeff
 

dh1200s

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Dick,
The good news is I was finally able to remove the transmission using a very long crowbar and LOTS of force. The bad news is the formerly good trans has holes punched in it and is destroyed. The 4 trans bolts were quite hard to remove (you mentioned about this in a email) and one seemed to have had a bit of water seep through the bolt seals (some corrosion near bottom of bolt). As you can see in the pictures there is a large amount of crud underneath the trans and in the bottom of the tub (along with some trans fluid after I punctured it).

The agitator shaft still can't be rotated as it's frozen solid. Here is what I think I need with approx. prices (please correct me as necessary): Transmission ($130), Spinner sleeve and seal ($?), Tub seal ($23), O-ring ($4). Not sure if I would need a Spanner Support Assembly ($251) or the outer tub bearing since the tub spins freely. The Tube Seal and Bearing Kit combined costs a ridiculous $251 on one web site.

Prices on parts for the Neptune TL seem to have gone up a lot since I last bought them. Is this beast worth the time and cost to repair? Is my cycle count (2976) considered high for its age (about 7.5 years)?

Jeff

View attachment 4435View attachment 4436View attachment 4437


What a mess!

I don't think a CLR soak would have helped much. I will bet the six clamping ring bolts that secure the Inner Tub to the Spinner Support would shear off as you tried to impact them off.

I don't want to send you in a wrong direction but I would consider pulling the plug and moving on, your down.... wash loads backing up. Time to visit the big box store and find a on sale TL and condition your water supply.

I have the parts you would need I picked up a few years ago for pennies on the dollar see pics below. I would never pay retail it's just not worth it for me. I also would be concerned about the Clutch Pulley. It's hard for me to believe that it would not need to be replaced.

Good luck Jeff and see what repair folks might feel is a good machine for the $........Dick
 

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Jeff_in_MD

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Dick,
I agree with your opinion. Even if I wanted to repair it, the wife wouldn't tolerate any more down time.

You have an opinion of top load vs. front load? Front uses less water and is more energy efficient but some have issues with mold on the door seal. Top load is probably less likely to leak. Will go to the local appliance chain scratch and dent warehouse and see what they have.

Thanks again for all your help. Hopefully the photos could help you for future questions.

Any particular parts you need?

Jeff
 

dianne

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Mar 14, 2012
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Three Forks MT
Hello,I'm having the same problem you have been describing with the same model and I have softened water and use liquid detergent so I'm not sure that would help.My husband who is a mechanic by trade is leaning toward a new machine after seeing these posts.LOL. I've had my machine for 5 yrs and theres only the 2 of us so about 5 loads a week and still the problem.
 

Jeff_in_MD

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Mar 8, 2012
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Dianne,
We were going to buy a Whirlpool Cabrio WTW5700 top loader (a front loader doesn't fit well in our space) but were told that there were repair issues with the Whirlpools vs. the LG models for the same price. The LG model we ordered also got much higher customer reviews. Unfortunately, the model we ordered (LG WT4801CW) is out of stock at all the local stores in the DC/Balt area until the end of March. Still can cancel if we find negative repair experiences with the LGs.
 
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