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Samsung DW80F600UTS Heavy + Delicate error, heater keeps burning out

HandyHusband

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Tennessee
Model Number
DW80F600
Brand
Samsung
Age
1-5 years
Hello All,

I am one of THOSE husbands that doesn't ask for help until it is really needed and ... I really need some help.

I have the DW80F600UTS v.01 dishwasher. 3 weeks ago the washer gave us the Heavy + Delicate error indicator. I pulled the heater and tested discovered it was bad. I ordered and installed replacement heater. 3 days later the same error. I pulled the bottom panel, checked the 3 day old heater and discovered it too was now bad.

Scratching my head, I thought the dishwasher ran a few times before burning out the heater maybe the thermistor is bad and the heater is burning itself out trying to get to a temperature the thermistor can register. So I pulled the thermistor. With my multi-meter set to Ohms I got no reading on the thermistor hot, cold or room temp.

Ordered new heater and new thermistor. Received today. I always check my parts before installing. I checked heater and it is good. I checked thermistor and again no reading, hot cold or room temp.

Possible that I got a bad one, but I guess also possible that this particular thermistor just doesn't read on my meter.


Has anyone successfully tested the thermistor using a multi-meter set to Ohms?

Any suggestions or advise would be greatly appreciated. Am I barking up the right tree with my thought process? I hate to burn out another $65 heater but I also hate to shell out $180 for a new PCB and wire harness if they are not truly needed.
 

rickgburton

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I checked thermistor and again no reading,.... I hate to burn out another $65 heater...
I don't have any information on Samsung dishwashers but you should have a tech sheet that came with the machine. look for an envelope somewhere on the machine. The tech sheet will have the values and steps to enter test mode. You're probably on the wrong ohms scale. Thermistors are normally measured in "K" Ohms (K=1000). If your heater only lasted 3 days you should be able to get a replacement heater under warranty from where you purchased it.
 

Jake

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HandyHusband

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Thank you. I reviewed that guide before resorting to a new thread. The guide was helpful but didn't help me find the underlying cause of the heater burning out.

I have the entire service manual and checked the wiring from the noise filter to the heater and from the PCB to the heater. I see no issues on the sheathing.

I managed to get the thermistor to read on the meter. Both old and new thermistor are coming in fairly close to each other. I guess I wasn't holding my mouth right with the meter leads.

Could the main board cause the heater to burn out again so quickly? From the guide I assumed they meant to replace the main board only if heater tested good but would not heat.

Now that the thermistor appears to test as good it makes me wonder if there is a relay on the board which could be bad?
 
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rickgburton

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Could the main board cause the heater to burn out again so quickly?
No, the only thing that causes an element to fail is high current/voltage or a defect in the element. They wear out over time because the center filament gets weak and eventually breaks/burns. They fail quickly if there's a defect in the element (or it's made in China). If the relay on the board was stuck and caused the element to stay energized, the high limit thermostat would open before the element failed.
 

HandyHusband

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Thanks for the information.

Today I installed the new thermistor and heater. The DW ran 1 cycle and indicated again HEAVY + DELICATE. I pulled the bottom panel, disconnected the new heater and sure enough the brand new heater is now bad.

Any idea what could be causing the heater to go out? What would cause the high voltage to short it out?
 

HandyHusband

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Rick,

Ready to toss it out in the yard at this point to be honest.

I was thinking of changing out the main board, noise filter, new wire harness and new element. All would still be similarly close to buying a new washer. My wife really likes this one, since it matches everything else in the kitchen ... and you know what they say about a happy wife.
 

rickgburton

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Happy wife happy life! One of us is missing something. Are you sure the heater is showing open?? That's a fairly heavy duty heater and it should have somewhere around 13 ohms of resistance. Did you check the new heater against the old heater when you got it? It doesn't add up for two open heaters. If they were used heaters, maybe.

There are no transformers on the machine so supply voltage is 120 VAC. That means all the AC components like pump, motor, water valve, and heater use 120 VAC to operate. You can get less voltage than the 120 VAC supply voltage but you can't get any more than 120 VAC. Ohm's law tells me V/R=I (V=120 / R=13 Ohms = I (9.2 amps) and that sounds right. That means there is nothing to burn out or short the heater.

The error code "Heavy" and "Delicate" LED's blinking is a heater error but the cause or what triggers the error is the temperature of the water increased less than 4* after the heater has been on for 10 minutes. So that tells me nothing is burning out the heater, the heater is not turning on. Recheck the heaters with your meter. When during the cycle do you get the error. Using the Normal cycle the heater doesn't turn on until the final rinse.
 

HandyHusband

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Thanks Rick for hanging in there with me. This is quite frustrating.

I checked both heaters after failure and they provided no reading on the meter. Prior to installation I checked them and they had a reading. I always do this to confirm my theory before proceeding with installation and to double check that my original diagnosis was correct. The most recent new heater is still installed. I checked for continuity between the poles and nothing, I also checked continuity between the mounting plate and the heater poles to ensure it was not grounding out. The mounting plate is completely isolated from the heater poles as intended ie. not grounding out.

The machine errors out about 20 minutes into the wash. I don't recall which cycle indicator is lit on the front panel. I have it all unhooked right now but can reconnect and run it through a cycle to determine exactly when the Heavy + Duplicate error is indicated. I will try to get this task performed this evening.

Curious if I should try to get a reading from the main board heater connections while in operation? They should ready 120VAC correct? I can also checked the amps if you think it is beneficial. I don't know if the machine would realize there is no heater installed thus shut down before being able to take a reading.

This model has the thermistor rather than the Assy Sensor ECS as mentioned in the manual. Besides the thermistor there is no other water temp sensor is there?
 

rickgburton

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T02 on the control board and a White Neutral wire is the heater connections. It sounds like heater must go out before it should turn on that's why the HEAVY-DELICATE or it would be (NORMAL-SMART AUTO) high temperature error. Let me see what the other techs think it could be.
 

Jake

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That is odd, never seen a heating element keep going out on any brand dishwasher.

I'm thinking something in the control board is shorting it out.

Here's the control board for your model:
DD82-01139B A/s Assy-Pcb Main


Jake
 

HandyHusband

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Thank you Jake.

Rick was going to check with some other tech's. Since the element wires are fairly isolated from the rest of the wires I wouldn't think it could be a wire harness problem. If it was in the harness one would think it would arc like crazy if it is carrying 120VAC.

I think I am going to try to order another new element and a new PCB unless someone else chimes in with an alternate suggestion. I can always send the new PCB back if the element burns out again.

Thank goodness we are not having Thanksgiving at our house this year!
 

rickgburton

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You might be right about the control board Jake, but for the life of me I can't figure out how. The heater uses 120 VAC which is supply voltage for the machine and the voltage going into the board. You can't get more than that going to the heater and the amps is determined by the resistance of the heater.

The machine throws the error, Heavy-Delicate. That error shows when the heater has been on for 10 minutes and the temperature of the water didn't increase more than 5 degrees. That tells me the heater went out either before or during the first 10 minutes it turned on. The first thing I thought of was the control board was keeping the element on longer than it should, like there was a stuck relay. If that was the case that would be a different error code and if the heater stuck on, the thermal fuse or the thermistor would sense the high temperature and open before the heater burned out.

What am I missing Jake??

Nothing bothers me more than not knowing why a new part fails. Of course we see that a lot, don't we Jake?
 

Jake

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Jake

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You might be right about the control board Jake, but for the life of me I can't figure out how. The heater uses 120 VAC which is supply voltage for the machine and the voltage going into the board. You can't get more than that going to the heater and the amps is determined by the resistance of the heater.

The machine throws the error, Heavy-Delicate. That error shows when the heater has been on for 10 minutes and the temperature of the water didn't increase more than 5 degrees. That tells me the heater went out either before or during the first 10 minutes it turned on. The first thing I thought of was the control board was keeping the element on longer than it should, like there was a stuck relay. If that was the case that would be a different error code and if the heater stuck on, the thermal fuse or the thermistor would sense the high temperature and open before the heater burned out.

What am I missing Jake??

Nothing bothers me more than not knowing why a new part fails. Of course we see that a lot, don't we Jake?

Remember Rick, this is a Samsung.:)

Samsung appliances have not come up to par as the long known USA ones yet, ie..Whirlpool, Maytag, KitchenAid, Amana. Samsung is known more for electronics/smartphones/TV's. When they start making products they know nothing about you get this weird problem that defies logic. Meaning if everything else checks out ok, the control board is the only part left that would cause this, Process of Elimination per say.:)

In my 30 plus years as a career appliance tech. I have never seen anything like this happen on Whirlpool, Maytag, KitchenAid, Amana.

Have you?:)

Happy Thanksgiving!

Jake
 

HandyHusband

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Thank's guys. I will order a new PCB and new element today.

I will report back once it is all installed.

I appreciate everyone's help.

Happy Thanksgiving ... a day late.
 

Jake

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HandyHusband

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DD82-01139b is the board I ordered. I confirmed it by inspecting the installed board on the dishwasher.

Thanks for double checking it.
 
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